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Stanford communications expert says this is the best way to start a conversation

It works for parties, work and relationships.

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Two coworkers making small talk.

One thing that makes people anxious when they have to make small talk is that they feel compelled to be interesting and put on a show. They think they have to wow the person they’re talking to with their wit, insights and stories.

However, Matt Abrahams, a Stanford communications expert and host of the "Think Fast, Talk Smart" podcast, says that people shouldn’t feel pressured to be interesting at all.

“A lot of us put tremendous pressure on ourselves to be interesting,” Abrahams told Inc. “We want to say exciting, valuable, relevant stuff, and it’s the wrong mindset. I think many of us see small talk as a tennis match where the goal is to get the ball over the net and score. I think we should see it more like hacky sack. The goal is to serve it to the person so they get and can serve it back to you. Success is when you all work together.”

Simply put, “the goal is to be interested, not interesting,” Abrahams said, paraphrasing matchmaker and author Rachel Greenwald.

“It’s about curiosity,” Abrahams says. “Starting with questions, observing things in context, bringing up relevant information. So, if you’re at a corporate event, you could talk about the keynote speech. If you’re at a cocktail party, you could talk about what’s happening in the room.” Most importantly, he says, “avoid the doom loops of ‘Hi, how are you?’ ‘Fine, how are you?’ And then you’re nowhere better off.”

It all boils down to the idea that people love being heard and asked questions. People often say that when they meet someone who listens well, they are an interesting person. This also points to the fact that we’re so used to the person we’re talking to just waiting for a chance to speak that it is refreshing to be with someone who is all ears.

Patti DeNucci, known as the Intentional Networker, believes that Dale Carnegie coined the phrase in “How to Make Friends and Influence People,” where he shares his axiom: “To be interesting, be interested.” She adds that Carnegie believes that people should be genuinely interested in others but also have a lot of interests.

DeNucci says we should strive for “living a good life,” which includes interests in cultural, academic, and travel pursuits. “After all, when we’re interested in many things, there’s a better chance we will be more equipped to take an interest in what others have to say,” DeNucci says. “And, in turn, we’ll also have something interesting to add to the conversation to keep it going, expanding, deepening.”



Carnegie’s thoughts on the power of listening were proven in a 2016 study that on sales calls, that did an excellent job of quantifying the amount we should speak versus listening during a conversation. A marketing director at Gong.io analyzed 25,537 sales calls and found that the interactions where the salesperson listened 57% of the time and talked 43% of the time had the highest sales yield.

This is known as the 43:57 rule.

Hopefully, these insights will make everyone who feels nervous about going to their next party feel a bit more confident walking into a room, knowing they’ll be a big hit simply by being genuinely interested in people. It also reminds the talkative bunch out there that people will probably like you more if you keep your mouth shut.

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Fourth grade was decades ago, but at least one student has not forgotten him.

It’s because of this teacher that I know that learning is one of the best things about being alive.

To him, I am probably long gone, lost in a distant sea of the thousands of students he led through the rough waters of institutional learning.

My fourth-grade class! Photo provided by Tina Plantamura, used with permission.

My face is one of many elementary school students that came and went while under his care in fourth grade. And to him, the story I tell might be familiar. It’s been so many years, and I know it might be hard to remember. But I will never forget that teacher.

It’s because of this teacher that I know that learning is one of the best things about being alive.

Learning was always an adventure in his fourth-grade classroom. He encouraged creativity and imagination.

And because of him, I have done the same for my three children. It was in his class that I read my first novel from cover to cover. And decades later, I bought that same book and read it with my son.

I know he doesn’t remember the last assignment I handed in, but I do.

I thought it was perfect. I hoped for a good grade. And one day after I put it on his desk, I also told him I was moving. I had only found out the night before.

He asked me why and for some reason I told him. I never told anyone else, but I stood there and told him the truth. I told him that my family was falling apart and my mother decided it was time to leave my father.

He told the rest of the class that it was free time, so they could talk and play.

He walked me out to the hallway. We talked for over an hour.

He probably doesn’t remember that day, but he’s probably familiar with something Maya Angelou has said: "People will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel."

I don’t remember exactly what he said because it was so long ago.

But I remember that out in that dark and echoing hallway, for the first time in my life, I spoke freely. Standing in front of him, I somehow knew that I didn’t have to be afraid. He listened patiently and attentively. He made me feel important.

When I cried a little, he didn’t tell me to stop, he just waited until I wiped my tears and composed myself enough to speak again. Maybe he called me brave, because that was how I felt.

That was the last time I saw him.

The next day, we left my father.

We packed what would fit in suitcases. I said goodbye to all of my toys and stuffed animals. I looked at our bedroom for the last time. I glanced at the stack of picture albums that held images of the first nine years of my life, not knowing that those years would be nearly erased.

My mother mustered up all the bravery she could find and we left. We got in a car and drove far away.

Fourth grade was decades ago for me.

He might have grey or thinning hair by now. He might not have same bounce in his step or the same energy he had when he stood in front of me and the other students.

The glasses he wears might have a stronger prescription now, and he might be leaner or rounder. He may have retired from teaching or moved up and on to something else. He might be resting on his laurels after a long and challenging career.

But I hope that somehow he knows that he helped change the world for one little girl.

He gave me a glimmer of hope. He gifted me with a love of learning. I was freed from the burden of secrecy and fear because he encouraged me to speak.

I hope he realizes that his worth is far beyond the highest salary he has ever earned. He helped a fearful child find her voice. And I hope other teachers realize that one measure of patience or one conversation or one moment of compassion can save a student.

A teacher like him must have many students who say that their lives changed for the better because of him.

So I hope he never has moments when he wonders about his worth. I hope he never worries that he didn’t do enough. And I hope his heart and spirit are strong and keep him standing should life ever pull him down or make him think that his efforts were futile.

But should he ever feel useless and weak, should he ever wish that he did something unforgettable, should he ever fear that he is not enough, and should he ever wonder if his actions inspired someone ... I hope he'll take a moment to think about all of the students he had and all the things he did and said that changed so many young lives.

I hope he knows that his heart, his time, and his energy make him unforgettable to so many kids like me.

Family

13 usually unspoken tips if your loved one struggles with depression.

If you love a person who has depression, you'll want to remember these things.

1. Depression is not a choice.

Depression is one of the most helpless and frustrating experiences a person can have. It’s sometimes feeling sad, sometimes feeling empty, and sometimes feeling absolutely nothing at all. There are times when depression can leave someone feeling paralyzed in their own mind and body, unable to do the things they used to love to do or the things they know they should be doing. Depression is not just a bad day or a bad mood, and it’s not something someone can just “get over.” Remember: No one chooses to be depressed.

Photo via iStock.

2. Saying things like “it’ll get better,” “you just need to get out of the house,” or “you’ll be fine” doesn't help.

It’s easy to tell someone these things because you think you’re giving them a solution or a simple way to make them feel better and ease their pain. But these kinds of phrases almost always come across as empty, insulting, and essentially meaningless.

In fact, saying these phrases only creates more tension within, making people feel as though they’re inadequate, and like you’re not acknowledging what they’re going through by trying to put a Band-Aid on a much larger issue. They understand you’re just trying to help, but these words will only make them feel worse. A silent hug can do so much more than using cliched sayings. What you can say instead:

"I’m here for you. I believe in you. I believe you are stronger than this, and I believe you’ll get through this. What can I do to help you? What do you think would make you feel better?"

Avoid offering advice, but instead just let them know you’re there for them and ask them questions to help guide them in discovering what could make them feel better.

3. Sometimes they have to push you away before they can bring you closer.

People who suffer from depression often get frustrated with feeling like they’re a burden on other people. This causes them to isolate themselves and push away people they need the most, mentally exhausting themselves from worrying about whether they’re weighing down their loved ones with their sadness. If they become distant, just remember to let them know you’re still there, but don’t try to force them to hang out or talk about what’s going on if they don’t want to.

4. You’re allowed to get frustrated.

Just because someone deals with depression doesn’t mean you have to cater to all of their needs or walk on eggshells when you’re around them. Depressed people need to feel loved and supported, but if it begins to negatively affect your life, you’re also allowed to acknowledge this and figure out how to show them love and kindness without self-sacrificing.

Photo via iStock.

5. It’s important to discuss and create boundaries.

In those moments of frustration, it’s important to take a step back and look at how you can help the depressed person while also maintaining your own sense of happiness and fulfillment. Be patient. Talk to them about your concerns and explain the boundaries you need to create within your relationship. Find out something that works for both of you.

6. They can become easily overwhelmed.

Constant exhaustion is a common side effect of depression. Just getting through the day can be an overwhelming and exhausting experience. They may seem and look totally fine one moment, but in the next moment feel tired and have no energy at all, even if they’re getting plenty of sleep every night. This can result in canceling plans suddenly, leaving events early, or saying no to things altogether. Just remember that it’s not about anything you did. It’s just one of the prevalent side effects of living with the disease.

7. It’s not about you.

When you have a loved one dealing with depression, it can be difficult to understand what they’re going through and to consider how their sadness is a reflection of your relationship with them. If they need space or become distant, don’t blame yourself and wonder how you could do things differently to heal them. Understand their depression is not about you.

8. Avoid creating ultimatums, making demands, or using a “tough-love” approach.

Telling someone that you’re going to break up with them or not talk to them anymore if they don’t get better is not going to magically cure them of their illness. They won’t suddenly become the person you want them to be just because you’re tired of dealing with their problems. It’s a personal decision to walk away from someone if their issues become too much for you and your relationship with them, but thinking the "tough-love" approach will make them better is unrealistic and manipulative.

9. They don’t always want to do this alone.

It's easy to assume people dealing with depression want to just be left alone. While there may be times when they want their space, that doesn’t mean they want to face their fears alone. Offer to take them on a drive somewhere. Ask if they want to get coffee or a meal. One-on-one time when you can bring them out of their routine and connect with them can mean everything to them.

Photo via iStock.

Reach out to them unexpectedly. Remind them they don’t have to do this alone.

10. Try not to compare your experiences with theirs.

When someone is going through a rough time, we often want to share our own stories with them to let them know we've gone through something similar and can relate with their struggle. When you say something like, “Oh yeah, this one time I was depressed too...” it only makes them feel like you’re minimizing their pain. Express empathy, but don’t suppress their feelings. The greatest resource you can share with your friend is your ability to listen. That’s all they really need.

11. It’s OK to ask your friend where they are in their feelings.

How are they really feeling, and how are they coping with their depression? Suicidal thoughts are a common occurrence for depressed people. It’s OK to directly ask them how they're practicing self-care and to come up with a safety plan for times when their depression becomes too overwhelming.

12. Schedule time to spend together.

Offer to spend time with them once or twice a week to exercise, shop, or hang out together. Ask if you can cook dinner with them and plan a friend date.

Photo via iStock.

One of the hardest parts of depression is feeling too exhausted to cook healthy meals, so you can really help them out by cooking food they can store in their fridge or freezer for later.

13. Just because someone is depressed doesn’t mean they’re weak.

In his book "Against Happiness: In Praise of Melancholia," author Eric G. Wilson explores the depths of sadness and how experiencing mental anguish can actually make us more empathetic, creative people. Although he explains the difference between depression and melancholia, he rejects the idea of inflated happiness that our culture and society is obsessed with and instead explains why we reap benefits from the darker moments in life.

Wilson writes:

“I for one am afraid that our American culture’s overemphasis on happiness at the expense of sadness might be dangerous, a wanton forgetting of an essential part of a full life. I further am wary in the face of this possibility: to desire only happiness in a world undoubtedly tragic is to become inauthentic, to settle for unrealistic abstractions that ignore concrete situations. I am finally fearful over our society’s efforts to expunge melancholia from the system. Without the agitations of the soul, would all of our magnificently yearning towers topple? Would our heart-torn symphonies cease?”

In a similar manner, psychiatrist and philosopher Dr. Neel Burton discusses in his TEDx Talk that some of the most influential and important people in history have experienced depression. He explains the way our culture looks at and treats depression, and how traditional societies differed in their approach, seeing human distress as an indicator of the need to address important life problems, not a mental illness.

It’s important to remember depression is not something that should be considered shameful, and experiencing it doesn’t make someone weak or inadequate.

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