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Equality

A white woman shares 13 things she's learned since marrying a Black man

A white woman shares 13 things she's learned since marrying a Black man
via Pamela Chandler

As the old saying goes, there's no way to know what another person experiences in life unless you've walked a mile in their shoes. But it's nearly impossible to understand how a person of another race experiences life because it's impossible to change one's skin color or cultural background.

People in interracial relationships have a special window into what it's like to be a different race because they see the differences in how their partner is perceived and treated by others.

Pamela Chandler, a white woman, and her husband Walter, a Black man, from Dayton, Ohio, made a list of 13 things that being in an interracial relationship and having a biracial child has taught them and posted it on Facebook.

The post received tremendous feedback from people in interracial relationships and those who had no idea what the experience is like. Upworthy got a chance to talk to Pamela about the post, the interview follows her and Walter's list.


So as a white woman married to a black man and raising a biracial child I've had to unlearn a lot of things. I've also...
Posted by The Chandler Crew on Tuesday, June 30, 2020

1.) She drives

I have to drive basically anytime we are leaving the Dayton area. We don't talk about it each time, we just both know that if we are leaving our general 'safe' area and heading to smaller town Ohio roads I'm the one driving.

2.) She does the paperwork

I have to handle store clerks, returns, getting documents signed, anything with any federal building or administrative work, I get further with any type of 'paperwork' thing that needs handled, people listen to me and are much more agreeable than with him.

3.) Avoid the greeting card aisle

The chances that we find a Black or Interracial couple on a greeting card are SLIM. Unless you want to give the same Black couple card every year, which we have. There are hundreds of white couples to choose from though!

4.) Walter has to go out of his way to present a friendly face

My husband goes out of his way to be nice and talk to EVERYONE. Not because he's a people person, but because he has learned that a 6'5 Black man intimidates people and so he overcompensates by being overly friendly so people won't be afraid of him.

5.) Be ready to show your receipt

If Walter is pushing the cart I always have to have my receipt ready when leaving the store.

6.) "You guys rent, right?"

None of our neighbors thought we owned our home, multiple neighbors stopped my father and asked him if he was the new landlord for us. Because of course, the old white man must have purchased the home. Not only do we own our home, it's fully paid off, we have no mortgage and we paid for it BY OURSELVES.

7.) Jesus doesn't see color, but some of his followers do

It took us YEARS to find a church without racist undertones and low key racist members, YEARS!

via Pamela Chandler


8.) The toy aisle isn't very inclusive

When doll shopping our daughter gets 25 white options and 1-2 black or mixed race doll options.

9.) Skin tone matters

The same people who stop us daily to say how adorable our daughter is, are the same people who would cross the street if Walter was walking alone.

10.) Stay clear of the stars 'n bars

We avoid all places with Confederate flags.

11.) Lots of old people are racist

If we go to Bob Evans (or any restaurant that caters to 'seniors') too early we are met with a lot of stares, the old racists eat between 4-5 pm.

12.) Walter can't be alone in the park

When Walter goes to a playground with our daughter he constantly stays by her side, if not he gets stares and people wonder what the 'big black man' is doing on the park bench.

13.) A non-controversial statement is, sadly, still controversial

Walter is concerned our Black Lives Matter sign by the door will make us a target when he is not home so he asked me to remove it.

via Pamela Chandler


After Pamela first made the post, she received responses from people all over the world.

"Our experience is so familiar to many people and that really hits you in the gut if you think about how common these things are for people of color," she told Upworthy.

"I think probably my favorite responses have been from older white people. We have so many older white people reaching out shocked and heartbroken that this is happening to us," she continued. "But the thing is, this is happening to people of color every day, everywhere."

Pamela believes that change begins when people "share their experiences with one another so people know it's happening everywhere."

"I'm glad the post resonated with people because, at the end of the day, it shows we are all humans just trying to make our way in this world and we all deserve to do that freely and without barriers," she added.

The first time Pamela experienced racism is when she was driving with Walter down a road in rural Ohio and was pulled over by the police. "Two police officers approached the car, one from each side and a third stayed at the back of the car," she said. "They all had their hands over their gun holsters as they approached."

This was all because her license plate light was out.

"Walter was in the passenger seat and they asked him for his license, not me the driver, and they then proceeded to ask him if he had any warrants," she said. "I've never been asked that in my life so I was shocked. We answered all their questions, they ran his license and he was cleared and they let us go after making sure, again that I was ok."

Experiencing racism as a couple can also cause problems between partners.

"I'm usually the loudmouth, and he is usually the one telling me to drop it and let it go. I'm coming from a place of privilege when I feel like I can discuss with a white person and get them to see why what they are doing is wrong," she said.

"Walter is oftentimes coming from a completely different perspective where it can be dangerous to speak up or pointless to speak up, so typically our disagreements come when he wants me to be quiet and I want to scream at the unjustness in the world," she added.

The incredible response the family has received led them to create a Facebook page called The Chandler Crew where people can "connect with like-minded people all over the globe" as well as a blog.

"At the end of the day we are all just learning and unlearning and learning again how to love each other better," Pamela said.

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The most inspiring pet stories of 2024

Leading pet brand Nulo knows every cat and dog has the power to be incredible.

via Keswick Mountain Rescue Team/Instagram, Cat Protection/Youtube

Incredible pets deserve incredible food.

2024 was a year filled with heartwarming stories that reminded us of the incredible bond between humans and their furry companions. From acts of bravery to heartwarming gestures, these pets made a huge impact on the lives of their owners… and the lives of many, many more.

It’s stories like these that continue to inspire leading pet nutrition brand Nulo, which is committed to helping pets live their best lives with functional, delicious and nutritious food. Through their innovative and intentional formulas, Nulo fuels incredible cats and dogs just like the ones below each and every day.

Enjoy some stories below of 2024’s goodest boys and girls — courageous dogs, trauma-informed kitties and much, much more —that really show the unwavering love and loyalty animals bring into our lives. Their inspiring actions fuel incredible.

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When a 71-year-old man went unconscious and collapsed during a steep hike, his golden retriever and a black labrador instinctively broke up into a rescue team — the smart and resourceful labrador going off to look for help, and the loyal goldie staying by its owner's side. Sometimes it’s smart to have two of “man’s best friends.”

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Marley, a seven-year-old, black and white feline known for his "incredible gift of empathy” won Cat Protection's National Cat of the Year 2024 for the way he comforts women who have been enslaved, exploited and trafficked and staying at the Caritas Bakhita Safe House in London. He’s known to often leave a reassuring paw on guests’ legs to “let them know they’re not alone,” a gesture often called “the first kindness they’ve experienced in years.”

- YouTubewww.youtube.com

In early 2024, Kobe, a four-year-old husky with an extraordinary sense of smell, began digging obsessively in the yard. At first the pooch’s owner, Chanell Bell, thought this was just typical behavior, but soon discovered that Kobe had indeed detected a dangerously large cloud of natural gas that would have not only been seriously life-threatening to her, but the entire neighborhood. It’s like they say, “the nose knows.”

Eight-year-old golden retriever Roger, may have failed his drug-sniffing training in Taiwan, but it turns out he has a knack for rescue operations during natural disasters. After a 7.4-magnitude earthquake struck, Roger dug through the rubble of a collapsed building to locate the body of one of the 13 people killed in the quake, offering closure to a grieving family. This earned him the nickname of “the pride of Taiwan” on social media.

Dogs don’t only save humans — sometimes they rescue other animals as well.

When folks scrolling through the X account called “Animals Dying” saw a video of a creature swimming through murky water with a deer fawn in its jaws, they probably assumed it was an alligator enjoying its latest meal. But to everyone’s surprise and delight, it was actually a Labrador Retriever making sure the sweet little fawn didn’t drown.

Once a stray, 12-year-old Cilla found her home at Outwoods Primary School in Warwickshire, England, where she calms anxious students, inspires a community of cat lovers on X, and has even used her social media celebrity to help raise £5,000 to restock the school library — a place she loves to lounge in.

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In July, Bloodhound puppy and K-9 unit member Remi used his powerful nose to help an autistic and non-verbal boy who had gotten lost find his way back home. Deputy B. Belk, Remi’s partner, used a piece of sterile gauze to collect the scent from the boy’s forearms and the back of his neck and had Remi “reverse” track backwards for about half a mile to locate the child’s home in a nearby neighborhood.

- YouTubewww.youtube.com

When a beautiful pooch named Gita saw her 84-year-old owner fall and hurt his leg, she ran down to the main road, and refused to move until someone stopped to help. Eventually she was seen by a man named Deputy Wright, who tried to get Gita into his patrol car, but the dog wouldn’t budge. When Gita did finally bolt off, Wright followed her down to where the man had been stranded, and was able to help him. Without her protection, who knows if the man would have been found in time? “The loyalty and heroism of our furry friends never cease to amaze us,” Wright would end up writing on Facebook.

If there’s an incredible furry friend in your own life, nothing says “thank you” quite like a nourishing meal. Check out Nulo for a variety of recipes sure to be loved by your beloved pet.

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Pop Culture

'Wicked' author reveals how one line in 'The Wizard of Oz' inspired Elphaba and Glinda's story

Gregory Maguire says he "fell down to the ground" laughing when the idea hit him.

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Gregory Maguire was inspired by a line in the original 1939 film "The Wizard of Oz."

Have you ever watched a movie or read a book or listened to a piece of music and wondered, "How did they come up with that idea?" The creative process is so enigmatic even artists themselves don't always know where their ideas come from, so It's a treat when we get to hear the genesis of a brilliant idea straight from the horse's mouth. If you've watched "Wicked" and wondered where the idea for the friendship between Elphaba (the Wicked Witch) and Glinda (the Good Witch) came from, the author of the book has shared the precise moment it came to him.

The hit movie "Wicked" is based on the 20-year-old hit stage musical, which is based on the novel "Wicked: The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West" written by Gregory Maguire. While the musical is a simplified version of the 1995 book, the basic storyline—the origins of the two witches from "The Wizard of Oz"—lies at the heart of both. In an interview with BBC, Maguire explained how Elphaba and Glinda's friendship popped into his head.

Maguire was visiting Beatrix Potter's farm in Cumbria, England, and thinking about "The Wizard of Oz," which he had loved as a child and thought could be an interesting basis for a story about evil.

"I thought 'alright, what do we know about 'The Wizard of Oz' from our memories,'" he said. "We have the house falling on the witch. What do we know about that witch? All we know about that witch is that she has feet. So I began to think about Glinda and the Wicked Witch of the West…

"There is one scene in the 1939 film where Billie Burke comes down looking all pink and fluffy, and Margaret Hamilton is all crawed and crabbed and she says something like, 'I might have known you'd be behind this, Glinda!' This was my memory, and I thought, now why is she using Glinda's first name? They have known each other. Maybe they've known each other for a long time. Maybe they went to college together. And I fell down onto the ground in the Lake District laughing at the thought that they had gone to college together."

In "Wicked," Glinda and the Wicked Witch, Elphaba, meet as students at Shiz University, a school of wizardry. They get placed as roommates, loathe each other at first, but eventually become best friends. The story grows a lot more complicated from there (and the novel goes darker than the stage play), but it's the character development of the two witches and their relationship with one another that force us to examine our ideas about good and evil.


- YouTubeyoutu.be

Maguire also shared with the Denver Center for Performing Arts what had inspired him to use the "Wizard of Oz" characters in the first place.

"I was living in London in the early 1990’s during the start of the Gulf War. I was interested to see how my own blood temperature chilled at reading a headline in the usually cautious British newspaper, the Times of London: 'Sadaam Hussein: The New Hitler?' I caught myself ready to have a fully formed political opinion about the Gulf War and the necessity of action against Sadaam Hussein on the basis of how that headline made me feel. The use of the word Hitler – what a word! What it evokes! When a few months later several young schoolboys kidnapped and killed a toddler, the British press paid much attention to the nature of the crime. I became interested in the nature of evil, and whether one really could be born bad. I considered briefly writing a novel about Hitler but discarded the notion due to my general discomfort with the reality of those times. But when I realized that nobody had ever written about the second most evil character in our collective American subconscious, the Wicked Witch of the West, I thought I had experienced a small moment of inspiration. Everybody in America knows who the Wicked Witch of the West is, but nobody really knows anything about her. There is more to her than meets the eye."

Authors and artists—and their ideas—help hold a mirror up to humanity for us to see and reflect on who we are, and "Wicked" is one of those stories that makes us take a hard look at what we're seeing in that mirror. Thanks, Gregory Maguire, for launching us on a collective journey that not only entertains but has the potential to change how we see one another.

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Joy

German holiday ad depicting two girls separated by invisible barriers hits home

A hauntingly beautiful message for our polarized times.

Photo credit: Deutsche Telekom/YouTube

"Bubbles," a holiday ad by Deutsche Telekom

Most advertisements are purposefully obnoxious or annoying in some way, designed to grab our attention in order to sell us a good or service. But occasionally a commercial comes along to accomplish that same goal but in a more thoughtful way, with artistic beauty and a heartfelt message that taps into our humanity. Are such ads still trying to sell us something? Of course. Does that mean the people behind those ads aren't sincere in the messages they're trying to convey? Not necessarily, which is why people around the world are celebrating a 2-minute holiday spot from a German telecom company.

The ad from Deutsche Telekom, the parent company of T-Mobile, plays more like a short film than a commercial. As a version of "Shchedryk" (the Ukrainian folk song that gave us the melody for "Carol of the Bells) plays, we see two girls around middle school age, one dressed in red with a pointy nose and the other in blue with pointy ears, forming a friendship despite the panes of glass that separate them. The scene alternates between the joy of playing together and the clear message that their elders don't want them interacting with one another. The girls are determined, but they eventually see how limiting the glass walls between them are. The reveal of their gifts to one another at the end is hauntingly beautiful, with a powerful message.

Watch "Bubbles":

- YouTubewww.youtube.com

Breaking down barriers is a classic message but one that feels incredibly timely for our highly polarized present. The ad feels like it makes a subtle allusion to the Berlin wall, but the walls that separate these girls are perfectly transparent. They can see into each other's worlds, but can't get past what's separating them. The way they see the problem but feel powerless to change it feels like a fitting metaphor for today's divisions, as do the bubbles that surround the girls and their communities preventing them from fully communicating with one another.

People found the video surprisingly moving.

"It's the invisible wall that people build between each other because of perceived differences...nationality, religion, sexual orientation and how they perpetuate it by passing it on to their children."

"The innocent and non-judgemental minds and hearts of children - so much that adults could learn from them!"

"Isn't amazing how it takes innocent children to take down the walls put in place by adults."

"It shows that governments and small minded people cannot keep people apart forever. They can keep us apart for awhile but the human spirit does survive in spite of governments and small minded people."

"Heart wrenching, and joy inducing all in one ad."

"A knockout Christmas ad with a profound message for our time... Wunderbar!"

"Blue, red. This ad has me crying. I am struggling here in the USA. Merry Christmas to all around the world!"

The tagline for the ad on the YouTube share reads, "Connections Begin When Barriers Break. ❤️💙" Though the ad comes from Germany, the song lyrics being sung in English and the red and blue colors can easily be seen as pointing to American politics (which arguably impacts much of the world in direct and indirect ways). It's a good reminder that so much of what divides us are invisible barriers we've created and grown to identify with. Seeing those things through the eyes of children helps highlight how absurd it is to wall ourselves off from one another due to differences—an age-old human habit of prejudice that only leads to more misunderstandings and suffering. It might seem scary to shatter the bubbles we've built around ourselves, but when we do, we may find that what's on the other side isn't nearly as scary or awful as we've been led to believe.

May we all find ways to break down barriers and embrace the joy of friendship in this season of goodwill.

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Joy

Doorbell camera catches a UPS driver in a moment of contagious joy over a simple snack

Her adorable orangutan walk says it all.

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Her delight at finding a snack she liked has people in stitches.

In the age of Amazon and other online retailers, delivery drivers have become an integral part of our lives. But most of us rarely interact with the people who drop packages at our door via UPS or FedEx or USPS, and if we do, it's usually only for a few seconds. We might manage a friendly "Good afternoon!" or quick "Thanks a bunch!" as they hustle to and from their vehicle, always rushing to fulfil their quota as efficiently as possible.

Delivery folks work hard. They're on their feet much of the day, traipsing up hundreds of front walks a week, through all kinds of inclement weather. Yes, it's their job and they're paid to do it, but it's always nice to have your work seen and appreciated, which is one reason a video of UPS driver discovering a sweet treat on a customer's front porch is going viral.

Another reason is that it's just hilariously adorable.

A doorbell camera caught a UPS driver wearing a holiday bauble headband walking up to the door and dropping off a package as she talks to herself. After she takes a photo of the delivery, she sees that the customer had left a little tray of drinks and snacks, and her "Oooh, do I see honey bunny?" is a sign of the hilarity to come.

Watch her reaction and the way she joyfully make her way back to the truck.

Unsurprisingly, people are in love with the driver and her giddy goofiness.

"I literally laughed out loud at her crazy walk back to the truck. I need more people like her in my life."

"I have a friend like that, he just makes my day every time we see each other. 😂"

"That is way adorable! Simple act that makes the day of a random person <3."

"I don’t know anything else about her but she’s my new fave human."

"OMG she reminds me of our mail carrier so much. We leave her cookies at Christmas and she always does a little happy dance that day."

Delivery drivers and former delivery drivers shared that these kinds of gestures really do mean a lot.

"As a former delivery driver, i want you to know that if you leave snacks and drinks out for us, we love you to the moon and back. 💜"

"Driving for Amazon paid my rent for 10 months. Not exaggerating when I say that it was a dark time in my life. Snacks made me smile. every. single. time."

"I mean... I literally took something from every house that had stuff out. I worked 10-12hrs+ during the holidays... I needed every calorie I could get walking 20-30miles a day."

"Even when I didn't take them I appreciate them. it's like seeing a sign that says we love delivery drivers."

"I'll tell you what, the people who leave food got me through my holidays as a postal carrier. Nothing slaps harder than an ice cold redbull and bag of pretzels and ice cold bottle of water that was left in a cooler. I had a lady who asked me what I liked and then had sperate bags labeled "Mail carrier USPS" and "UPS GUY" and "FED EX GUY" with our preferred snacks. She asked me what my favorite ice cream was and she knew my mile long loop and knew when I parked, I'd be done in 15mins, so, she'd be waiting at the truck every day all summer with an ice cream and a napkin.

There are some people who just f---ing make the day feel worth it, if you are one of these people, you are what makes delivering mail worth it. We do notice the nice things you do for us, THANK YOU."

"I do this during the summer. I'm in Texas so it's routinely over 100°F. I'm always trying to make sure there are cold drinks for our postal workers and delivery people."

"I do it during Australian Christmas. 40c/100f plus on a December day. Coke water and Gatorade always gone by lunch."

It's a good reminder that it doesn't take a lot to show appreciation and make someone's day. These kinds of positive interactions, even when asynchronous and not directly face-to-face, are an important part of building the kind of world we all want to live in.

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Joy

Woman orders a Diet Coke at the McDonald's drive-thru, and ends up with a new best friend

Their wholesome friendship journey is everyone's new obsession.

Photo credit: Canva

She order a Diet Coke with a side of friendship.

Sometimes new friendships appear when we least expect them. You can be out and about, minding your own business, when suddenly a small connection becomes the spark for something truly magical. Sure, these kinds of platonic meet-cutes might not get their own Hallmark movie, but anyone who’s ever experienced them can tell you they contain their own special kind of romance.

For Raquel Benitah, that unexpected friendship came while ordering a Diet Coke at McDonald’s. This was the key ingredient to make “dirty soda”— a trendy beverage made famous by Mormon Wives which combines soda with some variation of cream. Opting for the less sugary route of Diet Coke plus a Fair Life protein shake, Benitah had planned on filming her taste-test, hence why she had been recording herself at the drive-thru.

And it was a good thing she had been recording, because otherwise we would have never been able to bear witness to the “instant connection” with her soon-to-be-new-bestie Markelya Skelly.

“Are you vlogging?” Skelly asks excitedly in the clip. Benitah confirms, sharing her plan to pour the Fair Life into the soda.

Without skipping a beat, Skelly immediately asks “Are you trying that Mormon thing?!” and they both share a laugh. As Skelly recommends the “delicious” combination of Coke Zero and root beer, and Benitah promises to try it next time and “report back,” it seriously feels as though these two have already known one another for years.

“I’m obsessed with her!!!!” Benitah exclaims while pulling out. And after she posted the video of their adorable echange, over 12 million other people were obsessed too.

@raquelbenitah im obsessed with herrrrr
♬ original sound - Raquel Benitah

“I love these types of interactions with strangers, it’s so sweet,” gushed one viewer.

“Wait you’re totally besties now the energy is matching,” said another.

After going viral overnight, Benitah drove back to McDonald’s to reunite with Skelly the next day, but sadly Skelly wasn’t working and management couldn’t give out her contact information. Benitah must have kept at it, because in a follow-up video, we see the two hit it off yet again. Skelly shares that McDonald’s corporate reached out to her, Benitah presents her with the gift of a Fair Life and jokes about starting a podcast…and of course, the two make plans to try Coke Zero + root beer.

@raquelbenitah Replying to @Vanessa IM FREAKING OUT!!!! Sorry for the screaming, im way too excited ahhhhhh. dying that @McDonald’s ♬ original sound - Raquel Benitah

Since that fateful day, Benitah and Skelly have been "inseparable," according to their interview with Today. In addition to planning little friend outings for the holidays, the two have begun creating more adorable content together, including the long awaited Coke Zero/root beer taste-test.

While Benitah confesses that she actually hates the “bubble-gum” taste of root beer, she’s clearly having the time of her life drinking it with her new pal in the video below.

@raquelbenitah Replying to @Tina ✨ BACK WITH OUR QUEEN FOR THE TASTE TEST YOUVE BEEN WAITING FOR !!!! @Persephone M. @mcdonald’s canada🇨🇦 ♬ original sound - Raquel Benitah

What a clear reminder that friendships are every bit as enchanting as a love affair, if we let them be. Because let’s be honest, no matter what way love enters our lives, it’s nothing short of a miracle…which always deserves to be celebrated—and in this case, recorded.

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Identity

In 1983 actor Harvey Fierstein bravely shared what it means to be gay in prime-time TV interview

“I assume that everyone is gay unless I'm told otherwise," he told Barbara Walters.

via ClipoRama/YouTubeClipoRama/YouTube

Harvey Fierstein explains what it means to be gay to Barbara Walters.

If you want to know what it was like to be gay in the United States in the 1980s, an interview on ABC’s “20/20” where one of America’s prominent journalists, Barbara Walters, talked to 29-year-old Broadway legend Harvey Fierstein, is a great place to start. In 1983, Fierstein was the hottest thing on Broadway” with 2 hit shows: “La Cage aux Folles” and “Torch Song Trilogy.” But even though he was the talk of the town, Walters treats his homosexuality as if it is something foreign and threatening.

At the time, Fierstein was a rarity in pop culture—an openly gay male celebrity and his “Torch Song Trilogy” dared to do the unthinkable: humanize homosexual relationships. Fierstein later found mainstream success in films, starring alongside Robin Williams in “The Birdcage,” a movie version of “La Cage aux Folles,” and “Mrs. Doubtfire.”

In 1983, Fiersten sat down with Walters for a prime-time interview where he made the case that homosexuality wasn’t a deviant lifestyle and that it’s much more prevalent than most people think, especially in the arts.

“What's it like to be a homosexual,” Walters asked the actor, writer and one-time drag queen, point-blank. “I don't know. I'm just a person. I'm a person who sees the world in the opposite light than you do, that's all. But I see the exact same world as you do. I assume that everyone is gay unless I'm told otherwise. You assume everyone's straight unless you're told otherwise,” he told Walters and the millions of viewers watching at home.

Fierstein went on to dismiss the myth that homosexuality was caused by a strong mother and a weak father by noting that his brother was straight. He added that people must be born gay because LGBTQ people are found in every part of the world. “I mean you have to you have to start from the basics, 10% of the world is gay,” Fierstein said. “You got to stop with the ‘this is a sickness,’ ‘this is an abnormality.’ This is a normal thing that has gone on through the history of man. It has always been 10% of the population has never been bred out.”

In the interview, Fierstein also debunks the notion that homosexual people can’t enjoy the same type of committed romantic relationships as heterosexuals. “Those are not heterosexual experiences and those are not heterosexual words. Those are human words. Love, commitment, family belong to all people,” Fierstein said. "It is the norm in the homosexual community. It is not the norm in what you see on the news and all that. But what you see on the news and what you see in print are the bars.”



Fierstein added that when a happy lesbian couple stays together for 70 years, it doesn’t make the news. “Monogamy is as prevalent a disease in homosexuality as it is in heterosexuality. It's all the life choice that you make for yourself,” he joked.

The interview is a fascinating time capsule of a world right before the AIDS epidemic when LGBTQ people began coming out of the closet in increasing numbers to help fight the deadly pandemic. In the interview, Fierstein, as one of the few out and proud gay male role models, was forced to share simple truths about gay life that, 40-plus years later, most people have come to understand. It took a lot of courage for Firestein to speak his truth on such a big stage, and he did so fearlessly and with love and humor.

You can watch the entire interview here.

- YouTubewww.youtube.com

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