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Woman realizes she comes from a 'recreational argument' family and so many people feel seen

Understanding this phenomenon is so helpful, no matter how you feel about debate vs. conflict.

Photo credit: Canva

Do you come from a recreational argument family?

Have you ever noticed that some families can get into heated arguments—raised voices, vehement disagreement, rhetorical takedowns—and then act as if no actual conflict has taken place? If you come from a totally-conflict-avoidant or a genuinely-conflict-ridden family, such passionate debates might feel uncomfortable. If you come from a "recreational argument" family, it's just what people do when they get together.

A woman's realization that she grew up in the latter kind of family has prompted discussions about the whole idea and has people from all kinds of backgrounds feeling seen. Emmaline (@emmaleendryer) shared in a video, "As someone who came from a recreational argument family…I just learned the term "recreational argument"—which I thought we were all doing—and I owe a lot of people a lot of apologies."

Why does she owe some apologies? Because if you come from a recreational argument family, where argument is treated as a form of entertainment and debate is seen as an enjoyable activity like playing cornhole, you might assume that's the norm for everyone. And if you assume it's normal, you might argue with someone just because, or perhaps even to try to bond with them, and wind up surprised when they don't respond the way you expect them to. Either the person doesn't volley with you at all and just seems confused, or they engage in the debate but leave genuinely upset by the interaction.

A Reddit post explained the phenomenon like this:

"There are some people who 'argue' for fun. Flexing their rhetorical skills over something of no real-life consequence is a nice way to pass an afternoon. My In-Laws are like this. My father-in-law will argue with anyone about literally anything because to him, this is a fun game and he'd like to play with you, so Thanksgiving and Passover are always somewhat fraught holidays. I suspect a number of people online who are 'trolling' aren't actually trolling, but engaging in what they see as a Perfectly Normal Invitation to play.

"There are about the same number of people, in my experience, that find being in the general proximity of other people arguing the most agitating bullsh_t imaginable. Some people experience this as extreme, irrational annoyance, like people with misophonia when they hear chewing, and for some people the clinical meaning of the term 'Triggered' is applicable here because disagreements will, genuinely, trigger major psychological distress. Often, the more pointless and trivial the argument, the more agitating it is.

"The majority of people are somewhere in the middle of these extremes, and would like everyone else to mind their manners."

arguing, recreational argument, debate, discussion, mental exercise Some people love to argue for fun, others hate it. Giphy

To be clear, recreational arguing isn't fighting. There's no actual conflict taking place, but for those who are used to only experiencing debates or disagreements as fights, a passionate debate can feel like—and therefore be mistaken for—real conflict.

People in the comments clearly fell into different camps, further elucidating the point. Those who came from recreational argument families discussed the enjoyment they get out of arguing:

"It’s fun to debate vigorously."

"What’s the point in having a brain if you aren’t going to use it? I could argue about literally anything because it’s fun to really think about sh_t. I don’t understand how you can enjoy life without a little recreational argument tbh."

@thelivstorygoes

gotta go write some apologies hold on #recreationalarguing #familydynamics #roastfest #siblings #highcortisol

"I love recreational arguing. Growing up my siblings and I were constantly like we’re not fighting — this is just how we talk."

"Why are you arguing??' Bro I thought this was just a conversation?"

"I have never heard the term recreational arguing before but this is the perfect explanation for why I enjoy a good debate and other people hate me for it 😂."

"I married outside of the recreational argument community. I love him but it’s tough."

"I come from a playful roasting family and i for sure accidentally bullied some kids in elementary school that I thought I was friends with."

However, those who didn't grow up with that normalized explained how uncomfortable it is to be around:

"It’s so stressful for someone who does not do recreational arguing. 😭"

"YEP I go into full fight or flight every single time. It’s so emotionally taxing for me to even witness it!"

recreational argument, debate, discussion, time out, calm down Arguments are stressful for some people, even when they're fun for others. Giphy GIF by 5A5Bseries

"Yep my husband and father in law discuss politics and religion regularly and energetically. they get so riled up sometimes and I just hide in my room. I don't do raised voices well, even when I know they aren't mad, they are just loud talkers. 😅"

"Cannot emphasize enough how much I DESPISE recreational arguing and debates. Literally hell on earth to be in a group of people like that."

And then there were the people who came from one kind of family but felt like they belonged in another:

"i grew up in a household where people just did not talk to each other. The first time i spent time with a recreational argument family it was like i was freed from a cage. I love it. i love talking and thinking and exploring and learning."

"Try being a recreational arguer in a family where people argue argue. I just wanna have a nice fun disagreement but now everyone is mad."

recreational argument, debate, discussion, conversation, discourse, fighting There can sometimes be a fine line between debating and fighting.Photo credit: Canva

"I yearn to be a recreational argument family so I married into one… visiting my own family I often forget & get labeled argumentative… like yeah I’m trying to have stimulation conversation here."

"What is it called when your family tries to be a recreational argument family but it almost always blows up into real fights? 😭😭"

Emmaline's admission that she might owe some apologies highlights the importance of understanding these different perspectives. If we assume all people view passionate discussions the way we do, we risk creating actual conflict or at the very least some uncomfortable feelings. When we listen to different people's perspectives like those shared in the comments of Emmaline's video, it's easier to see when it may not be the right time—or the right person—to engage in a debate, especially if it's just for fun.

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Expert shares the 1 sentence that can stop an argument from boiling over

The trick is that you have to really mean it.

via Canva/Photos
A guy having a collaborative conversation.

We live in an age of conflict. Sharp political and social divides are everywhere, and while it's easy to theoretically write off people who disagree with us on fundamental core issues and values, the reality is that we often must co-exist with them and learn to manage our conflicts in a healthy way. Sometimes that means putting aside our differences and "agreeing to disagree." Something it means hashing them out.

The quickest way to stop having a constructive dialog with someone is when they become defensive. This usually results in them digging in their heels and making you defensive. This can result in a vicious cycle of back-and-forth defensive behavior that can feel impossible to break. Once that happens, the walls go up, the gloves come off and resolving the situation becomes tough.

Amanda Ripley, author of “High Conflict: Why We Get Trapped and How We Get Out,” says in her book that you can prevent someone you disagree with from becoming defensive by being curious about their opinion.

Ripley is a bestselling author and the co-founder of Good Conflict, a media and training company that helps people reimagine conflict. Not surprisingly, she's in high demand on news programs, conferences, and media summits these days.


- YouTube www.youtube.com

How to have a constructive conversation

Let’s say you believe the room should be painted red and your spouse says it should be blue. Instead of saying, “I think blue is ugly,” you can say, “It’s interesting that you say that…” and ask them to explain why they chose blue.

The key phrase is: “It’s interesting that you say that…”

It shows genuine curiosity in their point of view. That's critical to avoid someone shutting down on you.


conversation, arguments, communication tips People coming to an agreement. Canva/Photos

When you show the other person that you genuinely care about their thoughts and appreciate their reasoning, they let down their guard. This makes them feel heard and encourages them to hear your side as well. This approach also encourages the person you disagree with to consider coming up with a collaborative solution instead of arguing to defend their position.

It’s important to assume the other person has the best intentions while listening to them make their case. “To be genuinely curious, we need to refrain from judgment and making negative assumptions about others. Assume the other person didn’t intend to annoy you. Assume they are doing the best they can. Assume the very best about them. You’ll appreciate it when others do it for you,” Kaitlyn Skelly at The Ripple Effect Education writes.

Look out for signs of defensiveness like blaming, criticizing, making excuses, or being passive-aggressive. These are warning signals that your conversation is veering off the rails.

Phrases you can use to avoid an argument

The curiosity approach can also involve affirming the other person’s perspective while adding your own, using a phrase like, “On the one hand, I see what you’re saying. On the other hand…”

Here are some other phrases you can use:

“I wonder if…”

“It’s interesting that you say that because I see it differently…”

“I might be wrong, but…”

“How funny! I had a different reaction…”

“I hadn’t thought of it like that! For me, though, it seems…”

“I think I understand your point, though I look at it a little differently…”


conversation, arguments, communication tips Two men high-fiving one another. \u200bvia Canva/Photos

What's the best way to disagree with people?

A 2016 study from Yale University supports Ripley’s ideas. The study found that when people argue to “win,” they take a hard line and only see one correct answer in the conflict. Whereas those who want to “learn” are more likely to see that there is more than one solution to the problem. At that point, competition magically turns into collaboration.

“Being willing to hear out other perspectives and engage in dialogue that isn’t simply meant to convince the other person you’re right can lead to all sorts of unexpected insights,” psychologist and marketing Professor at Southern Methodist University tells CNBC.

The key words are "willing" and "genuine." These phrases aren't magic bullets designed to help you level your opponents. You have to actually, truly be willing to learn about their perspective and be open to changing your mind.

@danbharris

Let me know in the comments if this data rings true to you and your experience of conflict. And check out danharris.com for more from Amanda Ripley including what she has to say about “conflict entrepreneurs,”people who inflame turmoil to benefit themselves. #conflict #healthyconflict #communication #tenpercenthappier #10percenthappier

Another common tip that usually comes from the world of couple's counseling is to stop seeing the other person as your adversary. If you can imagine the two of you on the same team versus the problem, your conversations will be more productive.

In a world of strong opinions and differing perspectives, curiosity can be a superpower that helps you have more constructive conversations with those with whom you disagree. All it takes is a little humility and an open mind, and you can turn conflict into collaboration, building bridges instead of walls.

This article originally appeared last year. It has been updated.

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Wife has the perfect response when husband introduces her to coworkers as 'The Housewife'

She began by laughing hysterically.

via Artur Voznenko/Unsplash

An angry wife shares her thoughts with her husband.

A husband invited some new coworkers over for dinner and instead of properly introducing his wife, he made a sexist joke that she felt was belittling. The wife, who goes by the name Sadie on Reddit, shared the story on the AITA forum to ask if she responded correctly.

Spoiler alert: Yes, she did. “My husband invited his new coworkers over for dinner. When they arrived, he introduced me by gesturing at me and saying, ‘This is Mrs. Smith (he didn't even say my name)...the housewife!'" Sadie revealed.

“I looked at him for a second, then I started laughing hysterically,” Sadie continued. “I then told said, ‘No, honey, I work full time, and YES I still act like a housewife when I'm home because you simply can't bother to help.’” After Sadie’s remark, the guests stared at the husband, who tried to laugh it off and then changed the subject by asking them if they wanted a drink.

The rest of the dinner was awkward, with the husband and wife exchanging angry glances. After the guests left, the husband blew up at Sadie, saying that she laughed like a “lunatic” and that she ruined “his image.”

couple, fighting, spouses, husband, wifeHusband fussing at wife.Canva Photos.

“I told him he was wrong to lie about my status and deny my degree, to begin with,” Sadie continued. He said I could've talked to him about it privately later but not like this, and making his coworkers think he's useless.” Sadie asked the online forum if she was out of line, and they responded with a collective, "No!"

People overwhelmingly supported the wife, raising an issue far beyond the fact that her husband was seriously inconsiderate. It’s a big red flag in a relationship when one spouse diminishes or belittles the other in public or private.

“Men who diminish their partners to look better at the office are gross. He only seemed to care about his embarrassment and not yours. I'd be mortified if my husband used a lie that robbed me of my success and accomplishments to prop himself up," one user responded.

“It's a red flag for the relationship. He doesn't want a partner who is an equal. He wants a dependent woman who he can provide for completely so he can feel like a man," another user added.

Some also noted that it was wrong of him to disparage homemakers.

"He diminished (being a housewife is not a ‘low’ role, but he meant it that way) you in public, you corrected him. In public. As he deserved,” said another.

woman, red flag, gif, couples, fightRed Flags Reaction GIF by Kamie CrawfordGiphy

The viral post received over 24,000 comments, highlighting the idea that belittling your partner is a serious sign of a dysfunctional relationship that should not be ignored.

According to Psychology Today, backhanded compliments, digs, and subtle put-downs are attempts by one partner to make the other feel small and themselves feel big. “Although cleverly disguised as a joke or a compliment, these comments may qualify as ‘toxic’ if they sting, cause confusion, and replay in a person’s mind for days, disrupting their peace,” Erin Leonard, Ph.D. writes.

Ultimately, commenters overwhelmingly agreed that Sadie was right not to let her husband's belittling compliment go unnoticed. By sharing it online, she opened up a meaningful discussion about appropriate humor in relationships. Studies show that it’s healthy for partners to joke around with one another, but when the comments are thinly veiled put-downs and backhanded compliments, it’s no laughing matter.

couple, couple fighting, husband and wife, red flags, conflictHusband and wife sit on opposite sides of the couch looking unhappy.Canva Photos.

This article originally appeared last year.

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A man’s family criticized his girlfriend's weight, and he handled it with grace

"I never thought of my girlfriend as overweight."

via Rafaah Machado

A couple posing near a tree.

A 29-year-old man is dealing with serious tensions within his family after they confronted him about his girlfriend’s weight and how she chooses to dress. To find out if he was in the wrong for how he handled the situation, he took to Reddit to get some clarity.

The situation started at a recent family gathering.

“While attending my (26 M) brother’s girlfriend’s birthday party at their house, my mother and my brother brought me to the kitchen and confronted me, and told me that my girlfriend needs to dress more modestly and that they have a problem with her not wearing a bra,” the man recalled.

The discussion came out of the blue for the man who had no idea his girlfriend’s style or weight was an issue for anyone. It certainly wasn't one for him. His girlfriend had previously told him that she doesn’t like wearing a bra because it makes her chest feel “tight” and “uncomfortable.”

“I’m not sure if it’s because she’s my long-time girlfriend, but even though she weighs around 160 pounds, her not wearing a bra has never stuck out to me before, and I hadn’t even really noticed until they had pointed it out to me,” he admitted.

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A couple posing by a woodpile.

via Rafaah Machado/Pexels

His family members then began to talk about his girlfriend in a sexualized way.

His mother said her breasts were “too big” for her not to wear a bra, and her boyfriend added that when she’s in the room, it’s the “only thing you can look at.” His brother then confessed that he had had multiple fights with his girlfriend over the woman’s body and choice of attire. “She’s afraid my brother's eyes will wander, and she secretly is afraid he likes overweight girls,” he said.

After the confrontation, the man and his girlfriend left the party.

After the family realized they left, his brother called him, and he said that his girlfriend’s “body shape or the way she dresses is anyone’s business and that if people wanted to be creepy and stare at her, that wasn’t her fault.”

His mother then got on the phone and, once again, said the girlfriend needs to show “respect” for herself and the family by wearing a bra. “I then told them how important I think it is for my girlfriend to be comfortable in the clothes she’s wearing, and if she can’t be comfortable around my family, then we don’t need to see them anymore,” he said.

Sadly, the phone call devolved into a loud argument between all 3 parties. The man asked for a “second opinion” from folks on Reddit whether he in fact was being “too brash.” The commenters overwhelmingly supported him and said he handled the situation gracefully.

"Leaving the situation was the best thing to do. I'd like to think I would have this grace too but your family is REALLY weird," the most popular commenter, ARandomWalkInSpace, wrote.

"The way you talk about your girlfriend tells us a lot about the kind of person and partner you are, and your perspective and actions in this situation are admirable. Your family is trying to pin the blame for their own problems on your girlfriend," Amandahip wrote. "As someone with a relatively large chest, it’s almost easier to dress “modestly” while bra-less or wearing low-support garments. Your family is creating a battle that your girlfriend can’t win, and the two of you leaving the situation was a graceful response."

Another noted that the family blamed the girlfriend for everyone else's inappropriate reactions to her.

"You hit all the marks,” houskeepinghoney wrote. “Those women are afraid their men can't control their eyes, which they should absolutely be able to. "So tired of people blaming women for men's actions.”

In the end, the entire experience was an excellent way for the man and his girlfriend to break out of negative family cycles.

“My girlfriend is okay. We both come from families that thrive on drama,” he wrote. “This was just a breaking point for me personally. Thank you all for your support, kind words, and confirming what I already knew.”

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