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Hank Azaria shares how he flipped 180 degrees on his voicing of Apu on 'The Simpsons'

The actor went from defending his portrayal of the Indian shopkeeper to founding an anti-bias non-profit to share why it was wrong.

The Man Enough Podcast/YouTube

Hank Azaria spoke with The Man Enough Podcast about his evolution with the character Apu.

Hank Azaria has starred in dozens of TV shows and movies, both as a full-bodied actor and as a voiceover artist. But the roles he's best known for are the multiple characters he has voiced on "The Simpsons."

One of those voices helped win Azaria multiple Emmy awards, but also landed him in hot water—his portrayal of Indian shopkeeper Apu Nahasapeemapetilon.

A documentary by Indian comedian Hari Kondabolu, "The Problem with Apu," examined the issue of Apu being a racialized stereotype, no matter how beloved the character was. Kondabolu himself started of as a fan of the character. "Apu was the only Indian we had on TV at all so I was happy for any representation as a kid," he told the BBC. But that perspective changed as he got older. "He's funny, but that doesn't mean this representation is accurate or right or righteous," he said. "It gets to the insidiousness of racism, though, because you don't even notice it when it's right in front of you."

Azaria spoke to his own obliviousness and his years-long journey from defending his portrayal of Apu to co-founding an anti-bias non-profit aimed at educating people about why such portrayals are harmful on The Man Enough podcast.

"So what happened to me with Apu was that got pointed out to me," he told host Liz Plank and Jamey Heath. "It's like, your well-intentioned character that was very funny and made a lot of people laugh, and won you Emmys, and helped create an iconic, wonderful television show—and all those things are true about it—but it had some blind spots baked into it, in its groundwater that came through me and the writers and the creators, that had unintended negative consequences. And the fact that I was oblivious to it only underlined how much I needed to look at it."

That wasn't his first reaction, though. He said he got upset and "very defensive" at first, reacting in a way that many people find familiar.

"I was like, 'Well, where does this end?' And I hear now a lot of people say it today. They say it to me: 'Isn't this all silly? It's gone too far. Where does this end? Can you not do an Irish accent? Can you not do a Polish accent? You're not a policeman. How come you can play Police Chief Wiggum? I mean, where does this nonsense end?' kind of thing. And that was my first, second, and third reaction." He said to him, it was just another thing he was imitating as a voice actor. He didn't see the difference between imitating an Indian or a Black person versus a French or German person.

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Taking accountability for the past 💛#growth #mindset

"Learning that difference became important to me," he said. That was the beginning of his gaining a deeper understanding of how his voicing of Apu could be problematic.

Interestingly, Azaria's experience with a 12-step recovery program helped him process the backlash he experienced in a healthy, accountable way. He pointed out that a part of recovery is denial, but once you get past that, you start owning your part in the issue.

"Even if, in the end, you decide, well, my part of this, I think, is only 10% of the whole thing, I think somebody else is maybe 90% of this…you can only really work on your end," he said.

"Step four is that inventory. What am I doing here? Who am I? Where was I at fault? Where am I to blame? What's my part? How am I accountable?" he went on. "And step nine is amends. Now how do I make this right? How do I make up for it? Sometimes that can be 20 minutes. Sometimes it can take you years to work through that."

Azaria also had a professional and personal choice to make. "Am I gonna keep doing this voice or not?" he asked. "It wasn't so apparent to me what to do, especially when I was so defensive at first, because on the one hand, I didn't want to just bow to what we called then 'PC pressure.' Now there are other words for it, right? I didn't want to 'fold to the woke mob' or 'give in to cancel culture,' whatever we wanna call it. But more to the point, I didn't want to just, for appearance's sake, fold, because I was afraid of criticism or looking like a bad guy. On the other hand, I certainly didn't want to continue to do harm and perpetuate a stereotype and hurt people and marginalize people I really didn't know."

Azaria shared that one reason he didn't participate in Kondabolu's documentary was that he was afraid he would misstep and say things that would hurt both himself and other people. He said he was still learning and knew he needed to keep his mouth shut and his ears open. He started reading and attending seminars and talking to people.

"And these are conversations I had never had before," he said. "I don't think I'd ever had a conversation about race with anybody before, except in college, in a class where I was mostly just taking it in as an intellectual exercise."

Through that learning, Azaria began to recognize what many would call "white privilege," but that Azaria refers to as "relative advantages."

"I realized one of the main relative advantages or privileges I enjoyed is never having to think about that stuff. Never ever once. Didn't impact me. It's why I didn't take a pause when I did the voice of Apu or others, because it didn't occur to me that there would be any kind of impact beyond either a laugh or not a laugh, a successful show or not a successful show."

The more he learned, the clearer the reality became for him and he was able to make the decision to stop voicing Apu in 2018. Since then, he has gone on to work closely with The Soul Focused Group, a Black-led organization that focuses on building connections and raising the consciousness of people to help bridge divides that keep us apart. He also partnered with the group to found The Human Solidarity Project to remove financial barriers to the services The Soul Focused Group offers.

Azaria's evolution is fascinating to hear about and a great example of how education, open-mindedness and open-heartedness can lead us to a deeper understanding of and connection to one another.

Watch the entire interview below.

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Homer reads a list of 50 reasons not to vote for Trump in 'The Simpsons' upcoming Halloween episode

via Fox

On October 18, "The Simpsons" will debut it's 31st "Treehouse of Terror" Halloween episode. This year's show includes parodies of Pixar, "Toy Story," "Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse" and Netflix's "Russian Doll."

A minute-long preview teasing the Halloween tradition also touches on a night that will be one of the scariest of our lifetimes. Millions of Americans are fearing what could go wrong on election day after living through the horror of 2016.

In the trailer, Homer is stuck in the voting booth, unsure of who to vote for for president. His progressive daughter, Lisa, steps into the booth to remind Homer of everything that has happened in the past four years.

"Dad, by all that's decent, how could you forget everything that's happened the last four years?" Lisa asks.

All Homer can conjure up is when Faye Dunaway announced the name of the wrong film at the 2020 Oscars.

So, for the benefit of Homer and undecided voters across America, a list scrolls before the Simpsons' patriarch reminding him of 50 of the terirble things Trump has done throughout his political career.

The Simpsons' Treehouse of Horror Lists 50 Reasons Not to Vote Trumpwww.youtube.com


The list:

Made it okay to shoot hibernating bears

Put children in cages

Called Mexicans rapists

Imitated disabled reporter

Looks lousy in a tennis outfit

Can't get wife to hold hand

Called third world countries ****holes

Called Tim Cook 'Tim Apple'

Said Jewish people who vote Democrat are disloyal

Showed top secret documents at Mar-A-Lago restaurant

Called white supremacists 'fine people'

Leaked classified information to Russian ambassador

Asked the president of Ukraine to investigate the Bidens

Called for China to investigate the Bidens

Walked into the dressing room at Miss Teen USA pageant

Pressed the Australian prime minister to help Barr investigate Mueller

Talked about grabbing *****

Lied about the size of his inauguration

Refused to release tax returns

Gutted the E.P.A.

Confiscated and destroyed interpreter's notes after meeting with Putin

Tweeted classified photo of Iran missile site

Called Baltimore a 'disgusting, rat and rodent-infested mess'

Described Meryl Streep as 'over-rated'

Leaked information to the press about the 2017 Manchester arena bombing

Did not attend any White House correspondents' dinner

Said Megyn Kelly had 'blood coming out of her whatever'

Called Carly Fiorina 'horseface'

Ruined impeachment

Brought Ivanka to the G7 summit

Corrupted Congress

Appointed and didn't fire Betsy DeVos

Put Jared in charge of Mideast

Served McDonald's to Clemson football team

Destroyed democracy

Lost Hong Kong

Threatened Marie Yovanovitch

Pulled the U.S. out of climate agreement

Allowed bounties on soldiers

Invaded Portland

Withdrew from W.H.O.

Bragged about knowing the date

Commuted sentences

Said to swallow bleach

Person, woman, man, camera, TV

Destroyed post office

Paid $750 in taxes

Wants third term

Wanted to be on Mount Rushmore

And we haven't even said the worst one

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Apu's future on 'The Simpsons' is uncertain after Hank Azaria announces he'll stop doing his voice

Indian-American comedian Hari Kondabolu made a documentary in 2017 called "The Problem With Apu" which examined "The Simpsons" character, Kwik-E-Mart owner Apu Nahasapeemapetilon.

Kondabolu is a big fan of the show but has always been rankled by the stereotypical Indian character.

He told Vanity Fair that Apu is a flawed for a number of reasons, the most important being that he's "a white person's perception of an Indian immigrant."

Hank Azaria, the white man who does Apu's voice, watched the documentary and told TMZ that it made "some really interesting points." Azaria also voices Moe Szyslak, Chief Wiggum, Comic Book Guy, and the Sea Captain on the show.

"The Simpsons" addressed the controversy with a sorry-not-sorry response in 2018 in an episode entitled, "No Good Read Goes Unpunished." In one scene, Marge Simpson is reading a book that has been rewritten because it wasn't politically correct to her daughter Lisa. But Lisa complains she doesn't like the new version.

RELATED: Oprah's secret 1992 racism experiment on her audience is still incredible today

Then Lisa looks to the camera and says, "It's hard to say. Something that started decades ago, and was applauded and inoffensive, is now politically incorrect. What can you do?" she says before looking at her nightstand with a framed photo of Apu.

RELATED: A mother was ticketed in New York City while breastfeeding her child in a parked car

In 2018, Hank Azaria discussed the controversy on "The Late Show with Stephen Colbert."

"It has come to my attention more and more ... that people in the South Asian community in this country have been fairly upset by the voice and characterization of Apu," Azaria said.

"The idea that anybody who is young or old, past or present, was bullied or teased based on the character of Apu, it just really makes me sad," ge continued. "It was certainly not my intention. I wanted to bring laughter and joy with this character. The idea that it's brought pain and suffering — in any way — [or] that it's used to marginalize people, it is upsetting. Genuinely."

In the interview, Azaria revealed that the voice of Apu was inspired by Peter Sellers, a white man, who played an Indian character in the 1968 film, "The Party."

On Friday, Azaria told Slash Film he'd no longer be doing the voice of Apu.

"All we know there is I won't be doing the voice anymore, unless there's some way to transition it or something," Azaria said. "What they're going to do with the character is their call. It's up to them and they haven't sorted it out yet. All we've agreed on is I won't do the voice anymore."

While it remains to be seen what comes of Apu, the new development is a landmark moment for South-Asian representation in entertainment. It shows that society had progressed to the point where it is no longer funny for actors to do other-the-top ethnic stereotypes just to get a laugh. "The Simpsons" one of the most iconic comedy shows in television history, finally agrees.

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Hank Azaria gave an honest answer about his controversial 'Simpsons' role.

If you're a fan of "The Simpsons," you definitely know — and may even adore — Apu.

The Indian Kwik-E-Mart owner who reliably tells his customers, "Thank you, come again" is a clownish series favorite among many "Simpsons" diehards.

But in recent months, more attention has been paid to "The Problem with Apu" — both in the actual sense and the documentary from comedian Hari Kondabolu, which premiered last year on TruTV.

[rebelmouse-image 19491114 dam="1" original_size="492x326" caption="GIF via "The Simpsons."" expand=1]GIF via "The Simpsons."

Now, Hank Azaria — the actor whose voice has brought Apu (and a host of other "Simpsons" characters) to life onscreen for decades — has spoken out about the controversy that's ensnared his contentious character since the documentary aired.

And, fortunately, he hit all the right notes.  

But hold on! *pumps brakes*

Before you roll your eyes thinking this is just another one of those stories about an actor bowing to the P.C. police, you should at least know that Kondabolu, a New Yorker of Indian descent, has never criticized the show for its lack of political correctness.

The Fox series has long held a special place in his heart and personal history; he simply wanted it to do better.

"I was obsessed with 'The Simpsons' growing up and it has greatly influenced my comedy," Kondabolu said in a statement in September 2017.

"However," he noted, "as my mother proves, you can criticize something you love because you expect more from it."

A month later, in November 2017, Kondabolu explained to the BBC why Apu — who speaks in a caricatured accent and is often defined by the stereotypes associated with his South Asian identity — has been so harmful:

“Apu was the only Indian we had on TV at all so I was happy for any representation as a kid. And of course he's funny, but that doesn't mean this representation is accurate or right or righteous. It gets to the insidiousness of racism, though, because you don't even notice it when it's right in front of you. It becomes so normal that you don't even think about it. It seeps into our language to the point we don't even question it because it seems like it's just been that way forever.”

After months of silence from the series' creators, "The Simpsons" addressed the controversy in an episode that aired in early April 2018 — but totally botched the response. The episode used a conversation between Marge and Lisa as an attempt to illustrate the predicament the show found itself in.

"Something that started decades ago and was applauded and inoffensive is now politically incorrect," Lisa said in the episode, as the camera panned to include a picture of Apu. "What can you do?"

In a series of tweets, Kondabolu reiterated that his criticisms weren't about political correctness, but the problems that result from a lack of proper media representation.

Clearly, "Simpson" critics were not pleased. So finally, on April 24, Azaria addressed the issue as a guest on "The Late Show."

It went much better.

Speaking with Stephen Colbert, Azaria said his "eyes have been opened" to the problem with Apu.

He continued:

"I think the most important thing is that we have to listen to South Asian people, Indian people, in this country when they talk about what they feel and how they think about this character, and what their American experience of it has been."

The actor called for more artists of South Asian descent to have a seat at the writers' table for shows like "The Simpsons" so that characters like Apu are shaped by those who've actually lived similar experiences, and noted that he's open to evolving or ending his work on the show, if it's decided that's what's best.

"I'm perfectly willing and happy to step aside or help transition [Apu] into something new," Azaria said. "I really hope that's what 'The Simpsons' does. It not only makes sense, but it just feels like the right thing to do to me."

Like I said: This isn't a story about an actor forced to apologize for being un-P.C. It's a story about an actor understanding exactly how his character exacerbates a bigger cultural problem.

Characters like Apu are not only steeped in harmful, inaccurate stereotypes, but they're often the only depictions of marginalized groups many white Americans see on TV. If "The Simpsons" had featured other prominent South Asian characters in its nearly three decades of fictional storylines, the problem with Apu would be far less scarring to fans like Kondabolu. (He's not calling for Apu to be scrubbed from past episodes, by the way.)

“After a while, you’d watch 'The Simpsons' on a Sunday and you’d get a sense of how you’d be made fun of at school on Monday, based on what Apu did in the latest episode," the comedian told the BBC.

Apu's depiction really did have — and still has — real-world consequences.

Kondabolu, however, saw Azaria's interview with Colbert. And he's happy with how the comedian broached the topic.

Azaria's response to the controversy is an encouraging sign, but the problem with Apu remains.

So, until our TV screens reflect the real world we live in — where marginalized groups are portrayed both frequently and fairly — let's follow Kondabolu's lead and demand better of the shows we love.

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