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Hank Azaria shares how he flipped 180 degrees on his voicing of Apu on 'The Simpsons'

The actor went from defending his portrayal of the Indian shopkeeper to founding an anti-bias non-profit to share why it was wrong.

Hank Azaria on The Man Enough Podcast

Hank Azaria spoke with The Man Enough Podcast about his evolution with the character Apu.

Hank Azaria has starred in dozens of TV shows and movies, both as a full-bodied actor and as a voiceover artist. But the roles he's best known for are the multiple characters he has voiced on "The Simpsons."

One of those voices helped win Azaria multiple Emmy awards, but also landed him in hot water—his portrayal of Indian shopkeeper Apu Nahasapeemapetilon.

A documentary by Indian comedian Hari Kondabolu, "The Problem with Apu," examined the issue of Apu being a racialized stereotype, no matter how beloved the character was. Kondabolu himself started of as a fan of the character. "Apu was the only Indian we had on TV at all so I was happy for any representation as a kid," he told the BBC. But that perspective changed as he got older. "He's funny, but that doesn't mean this representation is accurate or right or righteous," he said. "It gets to the insidiousness of racism, though, because you don't even notice it when it's right in front of you."

Azaria spoke to his own obliviousness and his years-long journey from defending his portrayal of Apu to co-founding an anti-bias non-profit aimed at educating people about why such portrayals are harmful on The Man Enough podcast.


"So what happened to me with Apu was that got pointed out to me," he told host Liz Plank and Jamey Heath. "It's like, your well-intentioned character that was very funny and made a lot of people laugh, and won you Emmys, and helped create an iconic, wonderful television show—and all those things are true about it—but it had some blind spots baked into it, in its groundwater that came through me and the writers and the creators, that had unintended negative consequences. And the fact that I was oblivious to it only underlined how much I needed to look at it."

That wasn't his first reaction, though. He said he got upset and "very defensive" at first, reacting in a way that many people find familiar.

"I was like, 'Well, where does this end?' And I hear now a lot of people say it today. They say it to me: 'Isn't this all silly? It's gone too far. Where does this end? Can you not do an Irish accent? Can you not do a Polish accent? You're not a policeman. How come you can play Police Chief Wiggum? I mean, where does this nonsense end?' kind of thing. And that was my first, second, and third reaction." He said to him, it was just another thing he was imitating as a voice actor. He didn't see the difference between imitating an Indian or a Black person versus a French or German person.

@wearemanenough

Taking accountability for the past 💛#growth #mindset

"Learning that difference became important to me," he said. That was the beginning of his gaining a deeper understanding of how his voicing of Apu could be problematic.

Interestingly, Azaria's experience with a 12-step recovery program helped him process the backlash he experienced in a healthy, accountable way. He pointed out that a part of recovery is denial, but once you get past that, you start owning your part in the issue.

"Even if, in the end, you decide, well, my part of this, I think, is only 10% of the whole thing, I think somebody else is maybe 90% of this…you can only really work on your end," he said.

"Step four is that inventory. What am I doing here? Who am I? Where was I at fault? Where am I to blame? What's my part? How am I accountable?" he went on. "And step nine is amends. Now how do I make this right? How do I make up for it? Sometimes that can be 20 minutes. Sometimes it can take you years to work through that."

Azaria also had a professional and personal choice to make. "Am I gonna keep doing this voice or not?" he asked. "It wasn't so apparent to me what to do, especially when I was so defensive at first, because on the one hand, I didn't want to just bow to what we called then 'PC pressure.' Now there are other words for it, right? I didn't want to 'fold to the woke mob' or 'give in to cancel culture,' whatever we wanna call it. But more to the point, I didn't want to just, for appearance's sake, fold, because I was afraid of criticism or looking like a bad guy. On the other hand, I certainly didn't want to continue to do harm and perpetuate a stereotype and hurt people and marginalize people I really didn't know."

Azaria shared that one reason he didn't participate in Kondabolu's documentary was that he was afraid he would misstep and say things that would hurt both himself and other people. He said he was still learning and knew he needed to keep his mouth shut and his ears open. He started reading and attending seminars and talking to people.

"And these are conversations I had never had before," he said. "I don't think I'd ever had a conversation about race with anybody before, except in college, in a class where I was mostly just taking it in as an intellectual exercise."

Through that learning, Azaria began to recognize what many would call "white privilege," but that Azaria refers to as "relative advantages."

"I realized one of the main relative advantages or privileges I enjoyed is never having to think about that stuff. Never ever once. Didn't impact me. It's why I didn't take a pause when I did the voice of Apu or others, because it didn't occur to me that there would be any kind of impact beyond either a laugh or not a laugh, a successful show or not a successful show."

The more he learned, the clearer the reality became for him and he was able to make the decision to stop voicing Apu in 2018. Since then, he has gone on to work closely with The Soul Focused Group, a Black-led organization that focuses on building connections and raising the consciousness of people to help bridge divides that keep us apart. He also partnered with the group to found The Human Solidarity Project to remove financial barriers to the services The Soul Focused Group offers.

Azaria's evolution is fascinating to hear about and a great example of how education, open-mindedness and open-heartedness can lead us to a deeper understanding of and connection to one another.

Watch the entire interview below.

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A guy having a collaborative conversation.

The quickest way to stop having a constructive dialog with someone is when they become defensive. This usually results in them digging in their heels and making you defensive. This can result in a vicious cycle of back-and-forth defensive behavior that can feel impossible to break. Once that happens, the walls go up, the gloves come off and resolving the situation becomes tough.

Amanda Ripley, author of “High Conflict: Why We Get Trapped and How We Get Out,” says in her book that you can prevent someone you disagree with from becoming defensive by being curious about their opinion.

Ripley is a bestselling author and the co-founder of Good Conflict, a media and training company that helps people reimagine conflict.


How to have a constructive conversation

Let’s say you believe the room should be painted red and your spouse says it should be blue. Instead of saying, “I think blue is ugly,” you can say, “It’s interesting that you say that…” and ask them to explain why they chose blue.

The key phrase is: “It’s interesting that you say that…”


conversation, arguments, communication tipsPeople coming to an agreement. via Canva/Photos

When you show the other person that you genuinely care about their thoughts and appreciate their reasoning, they let down their guard. This makes them feel heard and encourages them to hear your side as well. This approach also encourages the person you disagree with to consider coming up with a collaborative solution instead of arguing to defend their position.

It’s important to assume the other person has the best intentions while listening to them make their case. “To be genuinely curious, we need to refrain from judgment and making negative assumptions about others. Assume the other person didn’t intend to annoy you. Assume they are doing the best they can. Assume the very best about them. You’ll appreciate it when others do it for you,” Kaitlyn Skelly at The Ripple Effect Education writes.

Phrases you can use to avoid an argument

The curiosity approach can also involve affirming the other person’s perspective while adding your own, using a phrase like, “On the one hand, I see what you’re saying. On the other hand…”

Here are some other phrases you can use:

“I wonder if…”

“It’s interesting that you say that because I see it differently…”

“I might be wrong, but…”

“How funny! I had a different reaction…”

“I hadn’t thought of it like that! For me, though, it seems…”

“I think I understand your point, though I look at it a little differently…”


conversation, arguments, communication tipsTwo men high-fiving one another.via Canva/Photos

What's the best way to disagree with people?

A 2016 study from Yale University supports Ripley’s ideas. The study found that when people argue to “win,” they take a hard line and only see one correct answer in the conflict. Whereas those who want to “learn” are more likely to see that there is more than one solution to the problem. At that point, competition magically turns into collaboration.

“Being willing to hear out other perspectives and engage in dialogue that isn’t simply meant to convince the other person you’re right can lead to all sorts of unexpected insights,” psychologist and marketing Professor at Southern Methodist University tells CNBC.

In a world of strong opinions and differing perspectives, curiosity can be a superpower that helps you have more constructive conversations with those with whom you disagree. All it takes is a little humility and an open mind, and you can turn conflict into collaboration, building bridges instead of walls.

Celebrity chef Gordon Ramsay.

Celebrity Chef Gordon Ramsay is notorious for having a bit of a temper on his shows “Hell's Kitchen” and “MasterChef.” But that doesn’t mean he can’t have a big heart, too.

Ramsay was being interviewed on the BBC's "The Radio 2 Breakfast Show" in 2022 when kitchen manager Tina Clarke from Edward Peake Middle School in Biggleswade, Bedfordshire, England jokingly called in to ask for help. She said she was "cooking on her own here" because two of her co-workers were out sick.

She had to prepare 300 meals for the students while short-staffed.

"I'm cooking here on my own, I work in a school kitchen and my chef has gone off sick and I have another one off with COVID, and I just wondered if Gordon would help me today and give me a hand?” Clarke asked jokingly.


To her surprise, Ramsay agreed to help. "If I did have the time I would be in Bedfordshire, I promise you in a heartbeat, I can send a chef if you wish?" he asked.

How could Clarke refuse the help of a chef that works with Gordon Ramsay?

Ramsay called a cab and sent over a member of his team, chef Rob Roy Cameron from Ramsay's Lucky Cat restaurant in London, to help. Lucky Cat is in a wealthy neighborhood and is known for Asian-inspired small plates and sushi.

Clarke had no idea that Ramsay would send help so she was a little worried the school administration wouldn’t be too pleased with her inviting a stranger into the kitchen without permission. But she couldn’t have known that Ramsay would say yes to her half-hearted plea.

"When I got a message saying your chef will be with you in an hour, I thought, 'Oh my God, I'm going to have to fess up to the head and I hope she doesn't give me detention or lines,'" she admitted.

However, the headteacher, Miss Linington, said it was fine with her and a jolt of excitement went through the halls of the school. When Cameron arrived, Clarke put him to work immediately making cauliflower cheese. "I'm sure he was terrified by having three menopausal women around him in the kitchen all day," Clarke joked.

Clarke said that the food tasted “amazing” even though Cameron was shocked to learn he couldn’t use any salt. The students were happy about their visitor, too. "The kids were so excited,” Clarke said. "We've never had so many visitors [in the kitchen],” Clarke said.

The next day, Clarke got the chance to personally thank Ramsay on the radio. "It sent a huge buzz around the school. So, thank you," she said through a pretaped message. She also thanked “her loyal staff," Andrea, Mandy, Sharon and Louise.

"Anytime, Tina," Ramsay responded.

Ramsay’s generosity shows that when you have a true love of food and cooking, a kitchen is a kitchen, whether you’re preparing a meal at a 5-star Michelin-rated restaurant or you have hundreds of hungry students to feed.

This article originally appeared on 3.31.22

Modern Families

Do you have a "living room family" or a "bedroom family"?

This 'debate' is all the rage on TikTok. But one is not better than the other.

alexxx1915/TikTok

TikTok user alexxx1915 recently posted a short video with the caption: "I just learned the term 'living room family' and I never understood why my kids never played in their rooms when I always did as a kid."

She briefly shows her kids hanging out in the living room with their pet dog and some toys scattered around the floor, before panning to her own face and giving a sort of sentimental look. The simple, ten-second clip struck a huge nerve with parents, racking up over 25 million views and thousands of heartfelt comments.






@alexxx1915

#livingroomfamily #fypシ

What are "living room families" and "bedroom families"?

This idea has been going around for a while on social media.

Simply put, a living room family is a family that congregates in the living room, or any common space in the household. Kids play in the same space where the adults relax — and things are often messy, as a result. Everyone interacts with each other and spends lots of time together. Bedrooms are reserved mostly for sleeping and dressing.

A bedroom family, on the other hand, is where the kids spend more time in their rooms. They play there, watch TV, and maybe even eat meals. Typically, the main rooms of the house are kept neat and tidy — you won't find a lot of toys scattered about — and family time spent together is more structured and planned ahead rather than casual.

"Living room families" has become the latest aspirational term on TikTok. Everyone wants to be a living room family!

The implication of being a bedroom family, or having 'room kids', is that perhaps they don't feel safe or comfortable or even allowed to take up room in the rest of the house, or to be around the adults.

"I remember my brother coming round once and he just sat in silence while watching my kids play in livingroom. After a while he looked at me and said 'It's so nice that your kids want to be around you'" one commenter said on alexxx1915's video.

"I thought my kids hated their rooms 🥺 turns out they like me more" said another.

"You broke a generational curse. Good job mama!" said yet another.

There's so much that's great about having a family that lives out in the open — especially if you were raised feeling like you had to hide in your room.

In my own household, we're definitely a living room family. We're around each other constantly, and the house is often a mess because of it. Learning about this term makes me feel a little better that my kids want to be around us and feel comfortable enough to get their 'play mess' all over the living room.

The mess is a sign of the love and comfort we all share together.

But the big twist is that it's also perfectly fine if your kids — and you! — like a little more solitary time.

boy playing with toys on the floorGavyn Alejandro/Unsplash

Being a 'bedroom family' is actually perfectly OK.

There's a similar discourse that took place last year about living room parents vs bedroom parents. The general consensus seemed to be that it was better to be a living room parent, who relaxed out in the open versus taking alone time behind closed doors.

But it really doesn't have to be one or the other, and neither is necessarily better.

Making your kids feel relegated to their room is, obviously, not great. It's not a good thing if they feel like they're not allowed to exist in and play in the rest of the house.

But if they just like hanging out in their room? Nothing wrong with that at all! And same goes for parents.

Alone time is important for parents and kids alike, and everyone needs different amounts of it to thrive.

Kids with certain special needs, like being on the autism spectrum, may be absolutely thrilled to spend lots of time in their rooms, for example.

So are you a living room family or a bedroom family? Turns out, it doesn't really matter, as long as your family loves each other and allows everyone to be exactly who they are.

Popular

In just 40 seconds, Matthew McConaughey made the heartbreaking case for gun safety

"She wore these every day, green Converse with a heart on the right toe."

Twitter/WhiteHouse.gov

Matthew McConaughey speaks at the White House about gun safety.

Maite Rodriguez was only 10 years old when she was senselessly murdered during the mass school shooting in Uvalde, Texas, that made national headlines in the summer of 2022. The Robb Elementary School student was passionate about nature. So much so that every day she wore the same pair of green Converse shoes with a tiny heart etched in ink on the toe of the right shoe.

Those now iconic shoes were the only reliable piece of evidence in identifying her body after Rodriguez was gunned down by the AR-15 style rifle that killed her and 18 of her fellow classmates.

Actor Matthew McConaughey used that horrifying and unforgettable image during an appearance at the White House, where he advocated for gun safety measures in light of the shooting that has rocked his home town of Uvalde and the nation at large. McConaughey's remarks immediately went viral across social media, with a short, 40-second clip amassing more than 7 million views in less than 24 hours. But two years later, the importance of those remarks unfortunately are just as relevant and poignant as the nation continues to grapple with gun violence.

"How can we make the loss of these lives matter?" McConaughey asked. “You could feel the pain, the denial, the disillusion, anger, blame, sadness, loss of lives, dreams halted," he added, when describing his visit to Uvalde after the shooting.

McConaughey's call for action is fairly modest. In an op-ed published in the Austin American-Statesman, the Oscar-winning actor called for commonsense reforms including expanded background checks.

"I believe that responsible, law-abiding Americans have a Second Amendment right, enshrined by our founders, to bear arms," he wrote in the op-ed. "I also believe we have a cultural obligation to take steps toward slowing down the senseless killing of our children. The debate about gun control has delivered nothing but status quo. It’s time we talk about gun responsibility."

But it is this 40-second clip that has spread like wildfire across social media in which a tearful McConaughey asks his wife Camila Alves to hold up the pair of Converse worn by Rodriguez.

"Maite wore green Converse with a heart hand-drawn on the right toe," McConaughey says in the clip, voice cracking with grief, "because they represented her love of nature. Camila's got these shoes, can you show these shoes, please?"

Alves, herself visibly shaken with grief, holds up the shoes with her head held down.

"Wore these every day. Green Converse with a heart on the right toe. Because it was the same green Converse on her feet that turned out to be the only clear evidence that could identify her at the shooting," McConaughey says.

The actor angrily slammed his fist on the White House podium, audibly moaning and muttering, "How about that," as the clip ends.

McConaughey and Alves spent the day on Capitol Hill meeting with lawmakers from both parties. The actor and activist has used his stardom to advocate for middle-ground commonsense solutions to the nation's problems, including gun safety. In both his op-ed and in comments at the White House, McConaughey acknowledged the unique reality of America's Second Amendment and relationship with firearms. Rather than shaming the concept of gun ownership, McConaughey stressed the need for workable solutions and for political leaders to put principle ahead of fundraising and reelection concerns, saying, “We can’t truly be leaders if we are only living for reelection.”

“We need to invest in mental health care. We need safer schools,” McConaughey added. “We need to restrain sensationalized media coverage. We need to restore our family values. We need to restore our American values. And we need responsible gun ownership.”

With the potential for modest but meaningful gun safety legislation making progress in Congress, it's all the more important to have voices like McConaughey's as part of the conversation, to both remind us of the urgency of the moment and that there is a way forward with consensus on bipartisan solutions to a problem that should be a priority for every parent and every voter in the nation.

You can watch McConaughey's full remarks below. And remember, there's a way for us all to come together in a way that both respects gun rights while also ensuring moments like this become part of a history where our differences kept us from coming together to find common sense solutions to challenges that impact the lives of people across this nation of every age, race, gender, background and belief.

This article originally appeared on 6.8.22

Kindness is the best kind of gift.

Charlotte Joy’s eighth birthday was fast approaching. Birthdays are often a source of unbridled joy for kids this age. Sadly, this wasn't the case for Charlotte. At least, not at first.

The young girl from Tennessee had experienced tragedy a few months prior—losing her mother, Jenny Wren, to brain cancer. Knowing a time for celebration would be more important than ever, her older sister, Chloe Sexton, tried to organize a birthday party, sending out invitations to all her classmates. Only one RSVP’d.

In a 2022 interview with Good Morning America, Sexton added that Charlotte had switched schools that year. Sexton made a special effort to “help grow a friend group” for her little sister, offering to arrange playdates for those who couldn’t come due to summer plans. "We sent out the invitations and on the back of the invitations, I made sure to mention, 'If you can't come, please just let us know.’” she told GMA.

Still … nothing.

Devastated, Sexton posted an emotional plea to TikTok onthe day before Charlotte’s birthday.

“For anybody who has a kid that they're raising, if a kid in your child's class gives out birthday invitations, just come. It's like, an hour or two of your life. Please just come," Sexton said through tears. "My little sister turns 8 tomorrow. Her birthday party is going to be this weekend. Our mom died of brain cancer 83 days ago. One—one child from her class RSVP'd. I haven't even told her that. Like why? Why? Her whole class knew what happened.”

@chloebluffcakes Just go to the birthday party youre invited to 🥺 #birthday #grief #kids ♬ original sound - Chloe

Fireworks could be heard in the background, something their mom told Charlotte “were for her” each year on her birthday, until this one. Sexton had been DIYing decorations in the garage by herself, determined to spend every night that week preparing for the party that weekend, no matter how few showed up.

Little did Sexton know that her video would be the very thing to turn their luck around.

Sexton’s TikTok quickly racked up 9.3 million views. And within hours, complete strangers offered to help. That Saturday, Charlotte's birthday was the stuff of legend.

@chloebluffcakes Replying to @chloebluffcakes thank you, from deep in my heart. Thank you alyssa, taylor, abby, cindy, libby and wveryone else who helped make this possible. You didnt just save a little girl from heartbreak, you saved something in me ♥️ #birthdayparty ♬ Paper Birds (3 min) - Jordan Halpern Schwartz

Sexton posted a follow up TikTok showing the amazing turnout. A gorgeous “Encanto'' backdrop (complete with colorful balloon arch) filled the living room. Dozens of children rode a party pony and petted a slew of reptiles. A procession of 30 Jeeps cruised down the street handing out gifts. Charlotte even got her own personalized mini Jeep! Along with many, many other gifts.

As for Charlotte, her smile never stopped.

“It was even more beautiful than I thought it would be!” you can hear her sweet little voice say in the video.

Thanks to the kindness of strangers, Charlotte and her big sis were saved from heartbreak. And though the party may be over, humanity is a gift that keeps on giving. Sexton told GMA that her P.O. box is filled “to the brim everyday” with birthday cards from folks on TikTok. Plus, both Charlotte and Sexton have made some new friends from that magical party.

Great things happen when people show up for others.


This article originally appeared on 7.19.22