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I did a roundtable with the Vice President about abortion. Here are 4 things that surprised me.

The conversation was important, but in some ways the experience was nothing like I expected it to be.

Annie Reneau, Joy Reid, Kamala Harris
TheReidOut/Twitter

Upworthy associate editor Annie Reneau chatting with Joy Reid and Kamala Harris in an MSNBC roundtable

It's been a very weird week.

I'm a writer and editor—not a medical professional, legal expert or political activist in any way—so imagine my surprise when I got a message from Vice President Kamala Harris's senior advisor inviting me to join a roundtable discussion on MSNBC for the one-year anniversary of the Dobbs decision that overturned Roe v. Wade. I thought someone might be pranking me, but nope. The invite was real.

Apparently, someone had read an op-ed I'd written years ago about how it's possible to be morally pro-life but politically pro-choice and felt that my voice would add something to the discussion. The panelists included the lead plaintiffs in the Dobbs vs. Jackson Women's Health Organization and the Texas Abortion Ban lawsuits, two activists involved in the fight for reproductive rights, a Texas OB-GYN who has seen the implications of the Dobbs decision in his own practice…and me.

I felt remarkably average among these experts on the issue, but I think that was the point. My view represents millions of average American voters who may feel conflicted about where they stand on abortion morally and legally and are trying to reconcile their personal or religious beliefs with what they think our laws should be. Additionally, as someone with no political affiliation or loyalty to any party, I could speak about grappling with this issue without any partisan pressure or influence.

I'd like to point out that I'm wary of most politicians and well aware of biases in the media, so despite feeling honored to be asked, I was a bit hesitant to participate. I certainly didn't want to contribute to the partisan divide if I could help it. But because abortion is such a complex and nuanced issue, dedicating an entire hour of prime time to a discussion about it sounded like a good way to help people gain a better, broader understanding. So less than 24 hours after being asked, I was on a plane to Dallas to join the roundtable, which filmed the next day.

The full roundtable discussion is worth watching (and can be found on Peacock, with clips available on MSNBC), but I wanted to pull back the curtain and offer a peek behind the scenes because there were some things about the experience that genuinely surprised me.

1. I had no idea ahead of time what questions they were going to ask

I assumed participants in these kinds of events would be prepped ahead of time with what questions they would be asking and have ample time to prepare. This was not the case for me, and according to the fellow panelists I chatted with, it wasn't for them, either. I used my travel time to prepare a few talking points I felt I could address somewhat intelligently based on my op-ed (since that's what prompted the invite), but all I knew before arriving for the taping was that we were going to be discussing the Dobbs decision.

The only preparation we got was about 30 seconds before each segment was filmed. Joy Reid briefly explained how that segment would be structured with something like, "Okay, in this segment, we're going to talk about [some element of the abortion issue]. I'm going to ask [panelist] about [XYZ] and then pivot to [panelist] to talk about [XYZ]. But feel free to chime in if you want to respond to something. We really want this to be a conversation."

That was it. The entire prep. I was surprised—but also delighted—by how unscripted it was. No one asked me to make any specific points. I didn't feel any expectation or pressure to even agree with what was being said. Obviously, they knew where I stood based on what I'd written, but they had no idea what I was actually going to say ahead of time.

2. The conversations on-screen were no different than the ones being had off-screen by all parties involved

I think people who are skeptical of media may think that things said for the camera aren't as genuine as one would hope. Maybe that's the case sometimes, but that wasn't my experience at all here. In the green room and during the commercial breaks while filming, the conversation about the issue continued just as it did on screen, just without a host guiding it. The genuine sincerity of the discussion filled me with hope.

For instance, the OB-GYN panelist I was chatting with in the green room told me that in his 30 years of practice, he'd never had a patient come to the decision to terminate a pregnancy lightly, and we talked about the importance of keeping compassion and empathy central to the conversation about abortion. That was just our casual conversation. In the hours I was there, I overheard people from the crew to the other panelists to Joy Reid and the VP talking behind the scenes about all the things we talked about on screen. There was nothing contrived or fake about what you see in the roundtable discussion.

3. There was no atmosphere of eliteness

Despite the presence of Secret Service agents everywhere and despite being a high-profile cable news show involving the Vice President, the whole thing after going through the metal detectors felt mostly…normal.

All the people I interacted with, from the folks arranging my travel to the people headlining the show, were so down-to-earth. Everyone was genuinely nice and repeatedly expressed their gratitude to all of us for being there. I kept thinking, "Wait, aren't I the one who's supposed to feel grateful for this opportunity?" I didn't expect to feel so at ease. There was an air of professionalism, of course, but not at all a stuffy or high-pressured one.

I mean, I chatted with Joy Reid about her hot flashes while we were waiting for Kamala Harris to arrive, for goodness sake. It was obviously a serious and highly organized event with lots of moving parts, but it also felt casual and relaxed, which made it easy not to feel too nervous.

4. I came home to an immediate example of why this issue is so important

The night after I came home from Dallas, I had friends over for dinner. One of them works with pregnant women and told me about a mom who was in her second trimester and very ill. Her bloodwork looked horrible and her health was going downhill fast. It turned out she had a very rare fetal anomaly that was creating her health problem, and she needed to terminate the pregnancy or risk a dire outcome. The anomaly meant there ultimately wasn't going to be a way to save the fetus.

Her previous OB-GYN who had delivered her other children was in Idaho, and though he wanted to help her, he couldn't, because what she needed was an abortion. She wasn't at death's door yet (though technically could crash at any time), so despite the obvious need to end the pregnancy, his hands were tied by Idaho abortion laws. She then had to jump through a bunch of hoops to get to a provider in Washington who could help her, all while her health continued to be in danger.

There are countless stories like this that illustrate the very real implications of the Dobbs decision on real people, including people who don't actually want an abortion but need one. There's a tendency to try to make this issue black-and-white, but it's not. There are unique circumstances surrounding every pregnancy and every childbirth, and real women are harmed when lawmakers insert themselves into healthcare decisions with no medical expertise or training.

It's vital that we keep the moral debates separate from the legal debates on this issue. Pregnancy is a healthcare issue, deserving of medical privacy. No lawmaker needs to be in the room when a woman and a doctor are making decisions about her healthcare. People can debate the morality of those decisions all day long, but keep the law out of it.

I wasn't necessarily surprised, but I was happy to see first-hand how, at the highest levels of this unfortunately politically-charged issue, the concern behind the debate isn't about politics, but about the real people negatively impacted by the court's decision.


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Mental Health

There's a new personality type called the 'otrovert' and one major trait sets it apart

"I feel seen for the first time in my life!"

Photo Credit: Canva

A person stands out in a crowd.

So many of us have the desire to compartmentalize our personality traits into neat little boxes. "Oh, she's such an INFJ. Oh, he's such a Gemini." Some of it is rooted (well sort of) in psychology, such as the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator, based loosely on Jungian ideas. Others rely on arguably less scientific data like stars and "rising signs." Humans aren't usually that simple.

That said, there's still value in understanding one's own personality and inclinations. Here's a confession: I've taken countless personality tests because I just couldn't figure out if I was an extrovert or an introvert. Neither description quite fit, and as someone constantly trying to understand what makes me tick, this has been frustrating.

Turns out, there are other options. The term "ambivert" got popularized in the 1930s (after being coined by Edmund S. Conklin in 1923), and it refers to a person "who has features of both an introvert (someone who prefers to spend time alone) and an extrovert (someone who prefers to be with other people) in their personality."

@tedtoks

Replying to @Factura🛄 now knowing what an ambivert is, how would you describe yourself? #ambivert #introvert #extrovert #adamgrant #psychology #TEDTalk #worklife

But for those who still don't quite relate, meet the otrovert. Just recently, psychiatrist Rami Kaminski published The Gift of Not Belonging, in which he discusses his coined term to describe a whole new type of personality. In an Insta-reel captioned "What is an Otrovert?" Kaminski mentions the polarization of introverts and extroverts. "When Jung invented the terms extrovert and introvert, he saw them as two fundamental orientations of the personality. I see the otrovert in the same way. A personality trait that faces away from the group."

He continues, "Extroverts and introverts are inherently communal, while the otrovert is an outsider to the group. In itself, it is not a problem or condition, nor is it a diagnostic label. It simply means that while most people learn to develop a sense of belonging to a specific group through social conditioning, otroverts remain social but not communal."

In writer Sarjna Rai's piece, "Struggle to Fit the Mold? The 'Otrovert' Personality Explains Why" for Business Standard, they write: "Unlike introverts or extroverts, otroverts are not defined by where they draw their social energy. Instead, the concept captures people who constantly feel like outsiders, and tend to look in a different direction altogether, not necessarily aligned with the rest of the group."

While it's impossible to group people into perfect categories, Rai explains that Kaminski claims the main thing that sets otroverts apart is their "reluctance to conform to group norms."

Writer Avery White lists signs one might be an otrovert in the article "7 Signs You Might Be an Otrovert" for VegOut. Among them is preferring "high-signal conversations and low-maintenance relationships." They give this as an example: "You’ll happily spend three hours exploring one idea with one person—and then not speak for weeks without either of you taking it personally. In other words, low pressure, low expectations, high connection.

Another on the list—and this is a big one according to Kaminski—is: "You can look extroverted in public—yet feel fundamentally 'other.'" This is actually the crux of the term, and in fact, what Kaminski formed The Otherness Institute for: as their website says, "those who feel they don't belong."

The site also shares that recognizing aspects of this type in yourself and others (if it applies) will help "balance between your individuality and your function as part of the social matrix that determines your well-being. The experience of otherness in a togetherness-minded world can be emotionally bruising. Often misunderstood and misdiagnosed, otherness may lead individuals to feel strange, lonely, and unwelcome in groups. Left unidentified, otroverts' non-belonging can result in a frustrating, futile lifetime effort of trying to 'fit in.'"

Some Redditors are scrambling to figure out if they fit into this category. In the subreddit r/INTP (referencing one of the Myers-Briggs personality types), the OP asks, "Maybe I am an 'otrovert?'" Under this, they write, "Dr. Kaminski described the otrovert child as 'neurotypical, friendly, curious, well-adjusted, and often popular' yet 'they resist being pressured into group activities.'"

While this can seem inconsequential in childhood, joining the peer group "becomes critically important" in adolescence, said the psychiatrist, and teens "start to gauge their self-worth based on the group’s ranking of popularity (or unpopularity).'

"Membership in a group, no matter how lowly, is better than being an outsider," he added. "Otroverts, however, are comfortable with being outsiders and find it impossible to feel like insiders, regardless of how welcome they are.'

There are a handful of commenters who feel seen, but many push back, claiming the term could easily apply to other personality traits. One writes, "I think it's easy to resonate with this description... but as some warning noted, there aren't enough studies done about this term that people should be running to adopt it. I resonated with it after reading about it... But I have ADHD and persistent depressive disorder... both of which coincide with the descriptions of an otrovert."

Time will tell if this new term sticks, but for now, it's helping a lot of people feel more understood.


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Family

Trendy 'grandma showers' get a lot of flack online, but when can they be a good thing?

Maybe it's not all "boomer entitlement."

@morethangrand/TikTok (used with permission)

Perhaps there is a right and wrong way to throw a grandma shower.

Grandparents—grandmothers, in particular—often earn a bad reputation for using the arrival of a baby to shift the spotlight towards themselves, rather than becoming a support system for the new parents. Insisting on cutesy nicknames like “glamma” comes to mind as an example (that's not to say that grandmas can’t elect to have alternative nicknames; it's more so the lack of collaboration that’s sometimes involved).

And growing more popular over the past few years is the “grandma shower” trend, which is essentially a baby shower, complete with all the usual fanfare, such as games, gifts, registries, and the like. However, this time, the celebrations are geared towards welcoming a first-time grandma into her new role.

With the aforementioned factors in mind, it’s probably no wonder that critics have called grandma showers “tacky” and attention-seeking. One person even took to X to call it “peak boomer entitlement.” As far back as 2010, etiquette expert Judith Martin referred to it as a shallow gift grab.

@ylsentertainment Grandma shower time!!! #babyboy #babylove #grandma #shower #balloon #decor #smallbusinesscheck #workingmoms #fyp ♬ Mother - Meghan Trainor


Perhaps, if we allow for nuance, we can see that there may be some circumstances where grandma showers are appropriate.

As popular grandparent advice site More Than Grand explains, having a group of coworkers celebrate a grandma shower during their lunch break, for instance, is virtually harmless, as are any other kind of low-key shindigs, since they don’t actually take anything away from the parents.

@morethangrand Are granny showers a nice new tradition or a tacky gift grab? Welcoming new grandparents with New Grandparent Essentials is always appropriate! Get New Grandparent Essentials at morethangrand.com/nge #grandparents #grandparent #CommunicationTips #GrandparentsLove #AdultChildren #NewGrandparent #newgrandma#newgrandparents #newgrandma #Grandparenting #HealthyBoundaries #Boomer #EffectiveCommunication #GentleGrandparenting ♬ original sound - MoreThanGrand

Additionally, gifts could be a viable option if grandma is doing most of the caretaking and can’t afford to get these things herself. At least then, it’s the village’s needs that are being supported. Shared grandparent wisdom or grandparenting books could even be a good grandparent-specific gift that doesn’t necessarily cross a line.

@treva_e_hodges Getting a new grand baby soon! #DrMayor #GrandmaTreva ♬ Storytelling - Adriel

HappiestBaby.com also had a few other helpful guidelines:

-Not having the grandparent/parent host the party

-Wait to schedule the grandma shower for AFTER the actual baby shower, and obviously don’t schedule it for a competing time

-Don’t double-dip on the invite list

-If creating a registry, simply share the parent’s. Don’t create a separate one.

It should go without saying, but a lot of these common icks that come as a result of grandma showers could be avoided by simply consulting the mom-to-be on what she’s comfortable with, More Than Grand argues. Much of the conflict in this area stems from not giving parents the respect they deserve as the ultimate authority on what’s best for their child.

Of course, becoming a grandparent is a wonderful moment that is genuinely worthy of celebration. However, as is evident by the overwhelming number of absentee grandparents out there, it is not nearly as involuntarily life-changing as becoming a parent. And that seems to be the major thing that ruffles feathers. Keep this in mind, and having a slice of cake that says “congrats GMA!” shouldn’t be an issue.

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Gen X mom reenacts 'coming home from school in the 80s' and it couldn't be more perfect

"This is why we turned out self sufficient, independent and successful."

Canva Photos

If you lived through an 80s childhood, this will send you back.

Generation X, made up of those born between 1965 and 1980, has many claims-to-fame in their younger years game. Gen X brought the world Prince and Kurt Cobain. We were The Goonies and The Breakfast Club. We took down the Berlin Wall while watching MTV.

But perhaps the most iconic thing about Gen X is our semi-feral childhoods of benign neglect. The standards of parenting and child rearing have shifted a lot in the past 40 to 50 years, as has the technological landscape that kids grow up in, so naturally, today's kids won't have the same childhoods previous generations had. But there's something particularly nostalgic about being a child of the 80s for those who lived it.


One mom nailed the experience with a video reenactment of what it was like to come home from school in the 80s.

Elizabeth Stevens (@BennettPeach on YouTube) arrives at the front door in her backpack, then pulls out a house key on a string around her neck. (Ah, the "latchkey kid" era when children were expected to come home to an empty house and let themselves in.)

Then she goes into the kitchen in her Care Bears t-shirt and finds a handwritten note—in cursive, of course—on the back of an envelope. "Working late—make your own dinner, watch your brother and the dishes better be done when I get home from bowling. – Mom"

- YouTube www.youtube.com

That's right. Mom wasn't just working late, she was also going bowling while her kids were home caring for themselves.

Then we see her washing the dishes despite barely being able to reach the faucet, even with a stool, and then her making a Gen X staple—the cinnamon-sugar and butter sandwich. On white bread, of course.

In just one minute, Stevens managed to capture the essence of so many Gen X memories, as commenters shared:

"The mom notes on an unopened bill is memories."

"Nailed it! The best thing about growing up in the '70s/'80's was being ALLOWED to grow up."

"Why this video made me almost cry?? How quiet it is inside the home. Lovely."

80s childhood, 80s, 80s nostalgia, gen x, latchkey kids, gen x nostalgia, generational differences, generational humor Wash the dishes before I get home from bowling! Photo by CDC on Unsplash

"Facts!!! No babysitter, go in the house, read the note, do the chores n not let anybody in!!!! I remember the homemade the 'cinnamon bun.'"

"70s and 80s … latch key kid here elementary, junior high and high school. we turned out self sufficient, independent and successful."

"Just so frickin on point!!! All of it from the clothes to the key on the necklace to the note. Even what you chose to do for a snack. Too good!!! The windbreaker that's memories. It's all coming back to me now lol thank you for this. You have brought a huge grin to both me and my inner child."

80s childhood, 80s, 80s nostalgia, gen x, latchkey kids, gen x nostalgia, generational differences, generational humor music video 80s GIF Giphy

"I was met with a note everyday, too. On the back of an envelope, my daily chores would be listed. If I was in trouble, I would cry as soon as I saw the note....lolol Love you momma. How I wished I could have saved those notes! They were historical treasures."

Tons of people gushed over the nostalgia of remembering those "good old days" when they were given both freedom and responsibility, with many saying kids today have no idea. One thing that might surprise the younger generations was how young the theoretical kid in this video could have been. We're not talking about young teens here—kids as young as 5 or 6 could be latchkey kids, and kids any older than that were often given responsibility for looking after younger siblings. Even official babysitting jobs could start around age 11, or sometimes even younger.

Gen X kids had learned to take care of themselves early on, which has its pros and cons. The rose-colored glasses many Gen X adults view their childhoods through can sometimes cloud the parts that were not so great about growing up in the 70s and 80s. Sure, that benign neglect resulted in resilience and independence, but for some that came at the cost of parental relationships and a sense of safety and security. We have more knowledge now about things like mental health support, parent-child attachment, and healthy relationship dynamics, and some of that learning is reflected in shifting parenting practices.

As often happens, the pendulum may have swung too far from the absent parents of the 70s and 80s to the helicopter parents of the 90s and 2000s, of course, and the "right" approach (if there is one) probably lies somewhere in the middle. But it is still fun to look back on those iconic childhood experiences with joy and humor and appreciate that they helped us become who we are today.

This article originally appeared in April. It has been updated.

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To chat or not to chat? The unclear etiquette of airplane conversation and how to navigate it.

Being trapped next to a stranger in the sky is a unique social situation.

Photo credit: Canva

People have strong opinions about chatting on airplanes.

Is there any social situation more inherently awkward than sitting next to a stranger on an airplane? It's not like a bus or a train, where you can get up and change seats if you're not thrilled with your seatmate. And with airplane seats getting increasingly cramped, you're inevitably invading one another's personal space in some capacity. Where else in life are you quite literally trapped for hours in such close proximity to someone you've never met and are unlikely ever to see again?

Some people enjoy making small talk on flights, finding it the most natural thing in the world to chit-chat with the person sitting next to them. Others find the prospect of talking to a stranger with no opportunity to escape the stuff of nightmares, and do everything they can to avoid it.

Since you never know who you're going to sit next to, it's like a game of roulette, and people tend to have pretty strong opinions on their own preferences. But are there any actual rules of etiquette that come into play for chatting with strangers on airplanes?

airplane, air travel, flight, airplane etiquette, talking to strangers, social cues Some people love chatting with strangers.Photo credit: Canva

The biggest "rule" is to pay attention to one another's social cues, which is easier for some people than for others. Most people make it fairly obvious if they are open to conversation. If someone is wearing earbuds or headphones, that's a clear indication that they are not really interested in chatting. If someone is reading, a brief greeting is appropriate, but then let the person continue the conversation if they want to. If the person looks at you and smiles, there's a good chance they're down for shooting the breeze, at least a little bit.

But what if you're on the receiving end of someone's eagerness to chat and you don't really want to? You can use headphones or earbuds, but if you don't have any or prefer not to wear something in or over your ears, there are other options. Reading a book or looking at your phone sometimes works, though a lot of people will still offer a greeting. You can indicate that you're not really up for conversation by responding to any additional chit-chat with polite, one-word answers and avoiding reciprocating with "How about you?"

There's also nothing wrong with saying, "I'm going to read/watch a movie/sleep/have some quiet time now," if someone isn't picking up your cues. It may feel awkward to be direct or not reciprocate if you're accustomed to standard small talk, but the social situation on an airplane requires different approaches.

airplane, air travel, flight, airplane etiquette, talking to strangers, social cues Earbuds and reading are cues that someone's not up for a conversation.Photo credit: Canva

Is it rude not to talk at all? Is it rude to ask people questions about themselves? In reality, there are no clear right or wrong answers here. The only thing that's actually rude is ignoring someone's cues that they don't want to talk. A brief greeting is generally polite, but beyond that, it's really up to the people involved to determine whether the plane ride will be spent in side-by-side silence, engaging conversation, or something in between.

Of course, some people go as far as to say you should "always" or "never" strike up conversations on airplanes, but most of us fall somewhere in between. It might even vary individually from flight to flight—maybe you've had a long trip or a hard day and want some solo reflection time, while at other times you might be feeling more social and enjoy some human interaction.

The most important thing is to recognize that there's a huge spectrum of preferences on this front. Just look at how these takes from a Reddit discussion on this topic differ so drastically:

"When you are boarding, it’s acceptable to let someone know you are sitting next to them, or perhaps say a simple hello. You should always treat others with courtesy, particularly the flight crew (eg, politely letting a seat mate know you need to use the restroom, placing a drink order). And it’s occasionally ok to strike up a conversation while deplaning as the other person is no longer trapped. Other than that, quietly keep to yourself.

The chances the person next to you just wants a moment to themselves is high. They had a long work trip. They are returning from a funeral. They are leaving school after finals. Even if they are relaxed, the chances they want to spend the flight speaking with a stranger who has a solid 50% chance of being insane is also low. No good can come of cornering someone in a tiny metal tube with no escape at 30,000 feet for multiple hours. It can only make someone feel trapped, desperate, and claustrophobic. And we’d all rather just listen to music, work, or watch a movie." – LazyConstruction9026

airplane, air travel, flight, airplane etiquette, talking to strangers, social cues Some people want to be left alone on flights.Photo credit: Canva

"Yeah chatting with someone on a plane is a great way to make the time pass quickly. It's also really easy to tell if someone's into it and if they aren't I just do something like watch a movie or play my Switch.

I'd have missed out on a lot of cool people's stories if I didn't strike up a random convo on the plane. One person was headed to Mexico for a month to be the first to climb a 14-pitch 5.14b they had there with no falls. A father was moving him and his family from Canada back to Mexico to run a church/shelter. Then there was a dude from Norway that talked about how he was working at Disney in a Norway-themed restaurant for a year which was super interesting to learn the logistics of.

There's a lot of cool people out there that are open to conversation and have awesome stories to share that make the time fly." – Romestus

"I was on a 16 hr flight from Dubai to NZ and ended up sat in between an old kiwi farmer from the South Island and an old kiwi farmer from the far north. They got on like a house on fire. They apologised for talking over me probably 50+ times but truthfully I was overjoyed to hear their life stories and watch them become friends and ultimately exchange phone numbers. At some point we established that all 3 of us were returning home from watching the America’s Cup in Barcelona, and all shared about our relationship with sailing and team NZ. It was honestly delightful." – southernkal

"I sit and stare at the seat back in front of me for the whole flight regardless of the length. I have done this forever. I like being alone with my thoughts and it is relaxing for me. I do not want to speak with anyone. It probably looks like I am bored so people start speaking at me. After a few one or two word answers they usually get the idea." – Pawlyplaysthebanjo

"I talk to people almost everywhere I go, but I can also understand when someone isn’t interested in chit chat. I’ve gotten job doors opened through plane convos, mentors, and feedback on all manner of things. I’m a social person obviously, and love meeting new people and learning about them - but I also understand not everyone is, even if it makes me sad to sit in silence for an entire flight." – Plastic-Anybody-5929

airplane, air travel, flight, airplane etiquette, talking to strangers, social cues The key is to read people's cues.Photo credit: Canva

"I had to catch too many flights this year due to two very significant deaths in my family. One of them required flying while my mother was on her deathbed. There was no way I wanted to talk to anyone and I’m glad that no one did. I needed that time to process and ground myself because of what I was going through. I’m not sure if I looked unapproachable or if people thought me rude. But I emotionally and mentally could not stand small talk." – invadergirll

"I love talking to people in airplanes, airports, etc. but sometimes I don’t want to talk, either. If they don’t seem interested in chatting- I don’t push. Once they put their earbuds in or start looking for something to read or watch, done. If they want to chat though- great!" – Born_blonde

You never know what people are going through and why they might want to or not want to talk. Plane chatting etiquette really boils down to reading people's cues (or learning to do so if it doesn't come naturally) and respecting when someone doesn't want to engage in conversation. In a cramped capsule at 30,000 feet, we definitely need to give one another plenty of social grace and space.

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‘Credit cards are not money’: 11 financial lessons from smart women who learned the hard way

Wisdom from savvy women who've been there—so you can skip the financial heartbreak.

Photo credit: Canva

Woman holding money.

Money conversations between women are essential. This is where women can drop their guard, admit their mistakes, and share the lessons they have learned at a high cost.

Recently, a powerful discussion erupted online when women on the subreddit r/AskWomen were asked a simple question: "What's the hardest money lesson you've learned so far?" The responses were raw, honest, and surprisingly universal—revealing financial truths that every woman should know before learning them the expensive way.

These aren't just money tips; they're survival strategies from women who've navigated financial hurricanes and emerged stronger.

Here are the 11 lessons that repeatedly emerged, each one carrying the weight of experience and the power to transform your financial future:

- YouTube www.youtube.com


1. Build your emergency fund like your life depends on it (because it does)

A recent survey conducted by U.S. News revealed a shocking truth: Two in five Americans (42%) do not have an emergency savings fund. Even more dismaying, nearly as many (40%) couldn't cover a $1,000 emergency expense with cash or savings, though 60% said they'd had an "unexpected expense pop up in the last year."

Unfortunately, a massive part of the problem is a gender wealth gap: nearly half of all women (49%) don't have an emergency fund, compared with just 36% of men who don't. They also have lower balances. Among women who do have emergency savings, the median balance is $6,500. It's $11,000 among men.

However, data revealed that emergency savings are the strongest predictor of financial well-being. Findings from Vanguard research indicate that having at least $2,000 in emergency savings is associated with a 21% higher level of economic well-being compared to not having any emergency savings.

money, emergency, funds, financial, literary Emergency funds are crucial. Photo credit: Canva

"Emergency funds aren't optional," warned one Reddit user. "Life will throw curveballs when you least expect them."

Another person chimed in, "Yup, my husband lost his high-paying job when I was eight months pregnant. I'm about to give birth and still have no job."

Then, a separate woman: "[I was] just driving and swerved to avoid [hitting] a rabbit. I hit the curb and needed new tires the same week I needed expensive dental work. Literally every dollar of debt I've been paying off this year just tacked right back on."

2. Never make someone else your financial safety net

Too many women learn this lesson through divorce, job loss, or relationship endings. Financial dependence isn't romantic—it's risky.

"Make your own money. Even if you meet someone wealthy who pays the bills, being able to say f*ck off is priceless ☺️" wrote one person on Reddit.

via GIPHY

Another echoed this sentiment, writing, "And have things in your name. Build your own credit. Lease your own vehicle. Financial abuse and manipulation in relationships is devastating."

Reflecting on their past, someone else replied: "It's so important to have credit in your own name. I stupidly got rid of all my credit cards when I was a stay-at-home mom, and it's taken me eight years of paying bills on time to achieve a good credit score finally. No credit is worse than bad credit. You never know what curveballs life will throw at you."

3. Bank approval doesn't mean you should say yes

"Just because you're approved for it doesn't mean you can afford it," warns one Reddit user. "Congrats! You're approved for a $500K mortgage! But can you afford $3,500 a month just for the mortgage? (On top of all the other house costs, like food, clothes, electricity, and water?)

Another person chimed in: "THIS! My Husband and I sat down and did the math on 'Here's what we make, here's what we owe, here's what we can afford for our monthly mortgage to be.' Then we went to a mortgage lender, and they ran their program, saying they'd give us a loan for twice what we knew we could afford. I'm so glad we did the math ourselves first and didn't take their word for it, or we'd have been headed to foreclosure for sure!"

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Here's the cold reality: Banks make money from your debt. A pre-approved credit limit or loan offer isn't a financial blessing—it's a business opportunity. Banks see your income and think "customer potential," not "what's best for this person's financial future."

Try the 48-hour rule: wait two days before accepting any credit offer, and ask yourself if you actually need it.

4. Lending money often means losing money

Mixing money with relationships is like mixing oil and water—it doesn't make sense and often creates an entire mess.

That $500 loan to a friend often becomes a $500 lesson about boundaries. Before lending money to anyone, ask yourself if you can afford to lose it completely. If the answer is no, the answer to the loan request should also be no. A simple, "I'm sorry, I can't lend you money," is a complete sentence and a complete answer.

"Don't lend money unless you can afford to never get it back," writes one replier. "I lent someone over $5,000, and when I asked for it to be repaid, she blocked my number and ghosted me."

5. Credit card debt is quicksand

Credit cards aren't emergency funds—they're expensive traps. A recent Experian survey found that nearly 25% of Americans are struggling to manage their debts. Meanwhile, LendingTree reports that the average APR offered with new credit cards is 24.23%.

One Reddit user recommends using a 0% APR credit card to reduce your credit card debt. "0% APR is good," they write. "Create a calendar reminder to remember when it ends. Before that [date], pay off your credit card bill and use it like a debit card. If you can't pay it within two weeks, don't use it. Pay off your card twice a month."

credit, cards, financial, literacy, women Credit cards are a slippery slope into debt. Photo credit: Canva

This echoes Experian's advice for paying down debt and improving financial literacy. They endorse the 50/30/20 budget, which allocates 50% of your net income for essentials, such as groceries and rent; 30% for discretionary spending, such as entertainment; and 20% toward savings and paying off debt.

6. Trust, but verify—even in love

It's not fun to talk about, but financial infidelity affects relationships more than physical infidelity, according to financial therapists. Research also shows that women's financial independence is an essential aspect of gender equality within heterosexual couples because it liberates women from fear of obligation to men. It's been proven time and time again that financially dependent (versus independent) women are more likely to experience poverty, material deprivation, and marital instability.

People online put it more bluntly: "Unfortunately, don't trust your partner with your finances," one writes. "Don't take their word for it because they're a liar. They've been lying to your face for a year. The savings you thought you had are all gone."

Another person replied, "As the partner that manages the money in my marriage, I second this so loudly. I'm responsible for our finances and trustworthy. But you shouldn't trust anyone with your financial security. I make sure my husband is aware and involved. He doesn't care, but everyone [else] should. If he wanted to leave me tomorrow, he should have access to funds to do so and the knowledge of how much there is and isn't, how much debt we have, etc."

They continue:

"Knowledge is power, people. Any investment decisions or purchases exceeding $200 must be discussed and approved by both parties. Even if your money is completely separate, it's essential to know how your partner manages their own finances. Because you're on the hook for their mistakes in some way/shape/form at the end of the day."

7. Your own bank account is non-negotiable

"Keep a separate bank account with yourself as the only signer," urges a Redditor. "You are not required to tell anyone that you have it. Consider keeping a joint account for communal bills with your significant other, but keep all other expenses in your own separate account. This wedding advice was given to me 20 years ago by my aunt, who has been happily married for 40 years. She was right then—and still is.

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Financial independence starts with financial access. Having your own account isn't planning for divorce—it's preparing for life. Even you need your own money in your own account. This isn't about hiding purchases or planning an exit strategy; it's about maintaining your financial identity and independence.

As David Back, co-founder of AE Wealth Management, notes: "You should have your own account, both of you. It's absolutely critical, especially for women, that you keep money in an account that's yours that you control."

"8. "No" is a complete sentence.

Women are socialized to be helpful and accommodating—often at the expense of their own financial security.

"It's OK to say no when someone asks you to loan them money," one person reminds. "I have the hardest time saying no to friends and family, and have an even harder time asking them to pay me back. Now I just say, 'I'm sorry, I don't have any money I can loan you.'"

Remember: You don't need to justify, explain, or apologize for protecting your money. Whether it's a loan request from family or pressure to cosign for someone, "No, I can't do that" is sufficient. Your financial boundaries aren't suggestions—they're requirements for your security.

9. Payday loans are financial poison

Here's a stat that will make your blood run cold: The annualized interest rate for a payday loan often exceeds 10 times that of a typical credit card. These loans cost $15-$30 per $100 borrowed, resulting in an annualized rate of 360%-780%, and they rarely help people build credit, often trapping borrowers in debt cycles.

"Don't take out a payday loan. Credit cards are not money. Don't mess with the IRS. And most importantly, protect your credit score. That number is everything," writes a woman on Reddit.

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Payday loans aren't emergency solutions—they're emergency creators. If you need emergency cash, consider exploring credit union loans, nonprofit assistance programs, or asking family before resorting to payday loans.

10. Trust your bank's romance scam warnings

Have you ever received a financial request from a stranger on social media or a dating app? Maybe posing as an old classmate or a potential romantic match, these predators work their magic on you—being charismatic, gaining emotional trust—before things take a turn, and they suddenly ask for money, citing a medical emergency, travel expenses, a lost passport, or a frozen bank account.

Sadly, this is the classic setup for a romance scam—a dangerous and growing form of fraud that preys on emotions. Corebank reports that victims often "lose hundreds or even thousands of dollars, believing they are helping someone they deeply care about—only to later realize they were deceived."

A banker on Reddit warns others of romance scams, writing: "If your bank tells you it's a suspicious account and refuses to send your wire transfer, trust them! You are susceptible to romance scams."

woman, stressed, money, financial, literacy Don't stress yourself out over a romance scam. Photo credit: Canva

Another shares, "My best friend fell for one of these. We're all dumbfounded because she's smarter than that. She didn't listen to any of our warnings. I'm not sure if the bank tried to warn her, but if they did, she didn't listen. 😞"

Corebank also found that romance scams disproportionately affect individuals over 55 years old (52%), which isn't to say that younger demographics are immune to their charms, with 11% of victims falling between the ages of 18 and 44.

How bad is this problem? According to the North American Securities Administrators Association (NASAA), romance scams, also known as confidence scams, are a growing problem in the United States. In September 2021, the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) issued a warning that its Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3) had received more than 1,800 complaints related to online romance scams, resulting in losses of over $133.4 million.

Make sure to protect your heart—and your wallet!—while talking to people online!

11. Permission to spend money on yourself, granted

Sometimes, the best financial advice for women is: to spend your dang money.

"I grew up poor, like, 'electricity was off sometimes' poor," recounts one woman. "Now, with my fiancé—who loves to spoil me—it's so hard for me to let him spend money on me. He can buy me a soda, and I'm like, 'But it's $3…' I'm constantly asking him, 'Is this OK?' when I get something. [I've learned from him] that it's fine to say, 'Money comes, money goes.'

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Where does this guilt come from?

The UN reports that when women work, they invest 90% of their income back into their families, compared with 35% for men.

You don't need to earn every purchase through suffering or justify every treat. Spending money on yourself isn't selfish—it's necessary. Whether it's the massage that helps you recharge or the course that advances your career, investing in yourself is investing in everyone who depends on you. Build "personal spending" into your budget and spend it guilt-free.

The bottom line: Your financial story starts here

What's beautiful about this thread is that these lessons weren't learned in classrooms or from textbooks—they were earned through real experience, tough decisions, and sometimes painful mistakes. And what's even better? You don't have to learn them the hard way.

Every woman who shared her story did so hoping to spare another woman the same financial heartbreak. Their wisdom is your shortcut to financial confidence.

Pick one lesson that resonates most with you. Take one small action this week. Open that savings account. Have that money conversation. Set that boundary. Your future self—and every woman watching your example—will thank you.

Because when women control their money, they don't just change their own lives. They change everything.

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