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Mom shows 9-year-old how to leave uncomfortable conversations and it's advice everyone should hear

You don't need to let someone make you uncomfortable.

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A young girl with her hand over her mouth.

Few things are more uncomfortable than sitting like a deer in the headlights while someone pushes you into an incredibly awkward conversation. Whether it’s a TMI (too much information) conversation or they want to talk about politics or religion, it’s hard to tell someone that a subject is off-limits.

However, in a viral Instagram post, Charisse Sims makes an essential point about these awkward situations: it will be uncomfortable whether you tell them to change the subject or if you have to sit through the conversation. So, it’s better to take the option that’s less hurtful to you. Sims is a mother of six and the host of the Parenting for the Culture podcast. She is also an awarded Educator by PBS and PBS Kids and founder of The Sims Library of Poetry.

How do you leave uncomfortable conversations?

She shared the advice while talking to her nine-year-old daughter, who she could tell felt very awkward about a recent conversation. “Immediately, when she started having that conversation, I could see on your face that you felt uncomfortable,” Sims told her daughter in an Instagram Reel. “When you have that feeling, your response to them should be, ‘I feel uncomfortable in this conversation. Let's talk about something else.”

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Sims then asked her daughter to repeat the phrase a few times to burn it into her brain for when she needed it. Her daughter then admitted that telling someone to change the conversation would be difficult. Most people probably agree that telling people you’d like to change the subject is uncomfortable.

However, Sims makes a great point: you will be uncomfortable both ways, so choose the one that best suits you.

“Which one is a longer discomfort, taking 10 seconds to say, ‘I feel uncomfortable in this conversation. Can we talk about something else?” Sims asked. “Or, sitting in a 20- to 30-minute conversation that you feel uncomfortable in?”

stop, woman, woman says stop, talk to hand, hand out, stop hand, conversation, awkward A woman holding her hand out saying "stop." via Canva/Photos

“It is uncomfortable telling people stop. It is uncomfortable being like, ‘I don't really like what you're doing,’ because you're worried you're going to hurt their feelings, and you want them to like you,” Sims continued. “But it's also uncomfortable to sit there and be uncomfortable for a long time. So choose your discomfort, and choose the one that's going to help you, not hurt you.”

Candace Smith, an etiquette expert, says it’s also helpful if you have another topic on deck that the person may be interested in to make the transition smoother for both parties. “When you think it’s time to let the other person know you will change the subject, be positive, and smile. Keep your eye contact warm and direct,” she says, before giving an example: “I’m going to change our subject here. Let’s talk about something cool like the Marvel movie!”

shhh, shush, finger over mouth, girl saying quiet, end of conversation, finger over mouth A young girl making a "quiet" motion. via Canva/Photos

Sims' advice is important because it’s something that all of us, adults included, could use next time they are forced into an uncomfortable situation. Her advice is a great tool for making sound decisions when we feel awkward and unable to think on our feet. “I wish when I was growing up, I was taught more how to navigate tricky situations rather than just being told to stay out of them,” Sims wrote in her post. “As simple as that is, It’s not always that easy. Our children need more support and actual practice navigating these awkward situations.”

This article originally appeared in April.

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Formerly 'awkward' person shares the 5 tricks he learned to become 'engaging' in 30 days

"I decided to treat every convo like an experiment, collect data on what actually makes people light up."

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A man and woman having a good conversation.

Do you get nervous in social situations because you’re not quite sure what to say? Do you dread exchanging hellos and then having an uncomfortable silence follow? Are you impressed by people who walk through social situations with confidence, who never seem to be at a loss for words, and whose company everyone seems to enjoy?

The good news is that if you are someone who feels socially awkward, you can overcome your discomfort by learning some basic communication tips that'll drastically improve your conversations. All it takes is studying the habits social butterflies use to be engaging conversationalists.

conversation, party, drinks, social situation, attention, listening Some friends talking at a party.via Canva/Photos

A Reddit user named Turbulent-Photo, who was admittedly awkward, began using some new conversational techniques, and in only 30 days, they went from being “awkward” to engaging. They shared the new skills they learned in a post on the Social Skills subforum. “I used to panic when someone asked a simple question like 'how's your day?' I’d give a one-word answer, then dip out. Then I decided to treat every convo like an experiment, collect data on what actually makes ppl light up,” they wrote before sharing five conversation hacks that helped them become a better conversationalist.

Note: The conversation tips have been edited for grammar and clarity.

Five conversation hacks to help you go from awkward to engaging

1. Active listening: “Instead of planning my next line, I just focused on their words, body language, tone, and it worked, mirroring their posture or repeating a key phrase (‘you said u love hiking?’), making them feel heard, and they open up.”

This trick is backed by science. Research shows that if you ask someone a question and two follow-up questions, it dramatically increases how likable you are. “We identify a robust and consistent relationship between question-asking and liking,” the study's authors wrote. “People who ask more questions, particularly follow-up questions, are better liked by their conversation partners.”

conversation, party, drinks, social situation, attention, listening A man and a woman chatting at a party.via Canva/Photos

2. Asking open-ended questions: Ditch ‘Did u have a good weekend?’ Try 'What was the highlight of your weekend?’ Suddenly they share stories, not just yes/no crap, and you got real convo material to build on.”

3. Storytelling: “Once I shared a 10-second tale bout freezing at the coffee shop, then joking with the barista, and people actually laughed. Vulnerability + humor = instant connection feels real.”

4. Body language: “I used to cross arms, look at the floor, classic ‘go away’ vibes. Then I uncrossed my arms, leaned in, kept my chest open, and people mirrored me back. Conversations flow even before I talk.”

Research shows that when someone likes you, they mirror your body language and movements. For example, if you’re seated, and the person likes you, they will mirror your seated posture. If you change your posture and then they adapt, it could be a big clue that someone likes you.

5. Affirmations: “‘That's a great point’ or ‘I hadn't thought of it that way’ cost nothing but boosts rapport big time.”

The interesting part about the five rules the Redditor shared is that most of them don’t involve you being the center of attention or having to wow the room with your amazing stories and anecdotes. It’s just about being a good listener, standing with intentional body language, and asking the right questions. Then, when you do take a moment to speak up, you’ll have an attentive conversation partner hanging on every word. Because you made them feel so comfortable and heard, they're happy to extend you the same courtesy.

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Health

Communications expert shares the number one small talk mistake people make and how to fix it

It happens at the start of a lot of conversations.

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A group of friends having a chat.

Many people don’t like making small talk. They either believe it’s beneath them to talk about mundane subjects or don’t see the benefit of discussing the weather, sports, or television with people they hardly know. However, these folks are missing a very valuable form of interaction that can help them with their love lives, friendships, and careers. They also remove themselves from situations where they can elevate small talk to something more valuable and meaningful.

Jefferson Fisher, a Texas board-certified personal injury attorney and law firm owner of Fisher Firm, has become massively popular on Instagram, with nearly 6 million followers, for sharing communication tips “to help people argue less and talk more.” While promoting his new book, The Next Conversation: Argue Less, Talk More, he shared the number one problem people have while making small talk.

What's the number one mistake people make during small talk?

"They unknowingly turn the conversation back to themselves too quickly," Fisher tells Parade. "It’s a natural impulse—we want to relate, to show we understand. But what often happens is that we hijack the conversation."

conversation, heart-to-heart, talking, girls talking, school conversation, Two girls having a heart-to-heart.via Canva/Photos

"For example, someone says, 'I just got back from a trip to Italy,' and instead of asking about their experience, we jump in with, 'Oh, I’ve been to Italy several times, it’s great.' It’s well-meaning, but it can come across as dismissive,” Fisher said. You may not be intending to make the other person feel unimportant, but they just got back from the trip of a lifetime, and you stole their thunder by making it about yourself. It can be tough to hold back in a situation like that, because you’re excited to talk all about your wonderful experience. But if you have a little self-control and ask them a few more questions about their trip, you’ll make a much stronger first impression.

“Instead, focus on them. Ask open-ended questions like, 'That’s wonderful, what was your favorite part?'” the lawyer continued. “Small talk isn’t about impressing people, it’s about making them feel seen and heard."

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Fisher’s advice echoes that of the great Dale Carnegie, author of the 1936 classic How to Win Friends and Influence People. In the book, Carnegie says, “To be interesting, be interested.” Carnegie’s advice is counterintuitive because we are taught to believe that being likable means dominating conversations and entertaining the other person. However, Carnegie thinks that people who are generous listeners and willing to serve the other person tend to make a better first impression.

How to be more likable.

Researchers at Harvard found out that when you ask someone a question, people will like you more if, after they answer, you ask them two more follow-up questions. So, if you ask, “Where did you go last summer?” And they reply, Italy, you can follow that up with two questions about their favorite city and the restaurant they’ll never forget. Then, you can tell them that you’ve been there, too.

conversation, parties, small talk, cocktail parties, rooftop party, A rooftop party.via Canva/Photos

“We identify a robust and consistent relationship between question-asking and liking,” the study's authors write. “People who ask more questions, particularly follow-up questions, are better liked by their conversation partners.”

People will take a shine to you after you ask a few questions because it shows that you are listening and interested in what they say. “Follow-up questions are an easy and effective way to keep the conversation going and show that the asker has paid attention to what their partner has said,” the researchers write.

While at first, it may take a little practice to ask follow-up questions instead of turning the conversation to your experiences and opinions, it should take some pressure off the need to be interesting. Now, instead of trying to wow people with your stories, all you have to do is listen to theirs, and they’ll like you all the more for it.

This article originally appeared in May.

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How people who hate small talk can learn to enjoy it with a few simple tweaks

One by one, Mark Abrahams tackles the common anxieties and hangups people have about small talk.

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Making small talk can be uncomfortable, but it doesn't have to be.

Some people love to chit chat and find shooting the breeze with strangers an enjoyable activity. Others, not so much. Whether it's due to social anxiety or a general loathing of the whole concept, small talk can be frustrating and annoying to some.

But according to communications expert and Stanford lecturer Mark Abrahams, it doesn't have to be that way. People can not only develop the skills for it, but they can even learn to enjoy small talk with some adjustments to how they engage with it. In his video, "How to Get Good at Small Talk, and Even Enjoy It," Abrahams first challenges the idea that small talk is unimportant.

small talk, conversation, chit chat, talking to new people, chatting Making conversation doesn't come easily for everyone.Photo credit: Canva

"Small talk, I think, is actually a misnomer," he says. "We refer to small talk as any chit-chat or just conversation that we don't put a lot of import on, when, in fact, small talk is a wonderful way of connecting, bonding, learning, and growing." What makes it hard is that we don't have a script for it. We have to go with whatever's happening in the moment, and we tend to feel like we're being tested.

Abrahams explains that people often think of small talk like a game of tennis, where someone lobs the ball to you and you have to figure out how to return it. In reality, it's more like a game of hacky sack where everyone collaborates toward the shared goal of keeping the sack in the air. Reframing it as a group effort rather than a competition can make small talk more enjoyable and less threatening or scary.

With that mindset, Abrahams offers a series of tips that address people's common concerns and anxieties about making small talk.

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Establish appropriate goals.

"Your goal is to be interested, not interesting," Abrahams says, quoting Rachel Greenwald. "A lot of us go into these situations thinking that we need to be really fascinating, engaging, and interesting, when, in fact, we just need to be present and be interested in the conversation that's happening."

Shifting the spotlight to the other person can help reduce the anxiety we might feel about being judged, Abraham explains.

Give yourself permission to pause.

Silence can feel incredibly awkward in a conversation, but it's better to take the time to think about a response rather than rush to say something just to avoid a pause.

"We have this sense that speed to respond is somehow is associated with competence," Abrahams says. "But really, what reflects best on your competence is an appropriate response. And appropriateness can take a little bit of time."

gif, awkward, conversation, small talk, chit chat, speaking Awkward Andy Samberg GIF by Brooklyn Nine-NineGiphy

One way to fill the silence while giving yourself time is to paraphrase what the other person just said, which also forces us to listen more closely.

"Most of us listen just enough to get the gist of what somebody's saying, and then we immediately start judging, rehearsing, and responding," says Abrahams. "When I paraphrase, I have to listen super intently. I have to listen to understand—what's the bottom line of what you're saying? That slows me down. And by slowing my own thoughts down and then paraphrasing them, I buy myself some time to really think."

What if you feel like you have nothing smart to say?

Abrahams shares his mother-in-law's three-word trick for keeping small talk going when you have nothing to say: "Tell me more."

"If you are ever in a situation, a communication, a conversation where you don't know what to say, most of the time you could simply say, "Tell me more," or "Give me some more detail," or "What did you mean about that point?" And just by giving the person an opportunity to speak again, that gives you time to find what you might want to say and to connect to it."

small talk, conversation, chit chat, talking to new people, chatting Awkwardness and mistakes happen to everyone. Photo credit: Canva

What if I make a mistake or say something dumb?

Yep, that's going to happen. We all make mistakes sometimes.

"Spontaneous communication is about connection, not perfection," says Abrahams. He suggests thinking of turns in conversation as "takes," like in filming. If you make a mistake, just do another take. No big deal.

What if my problem is that I have too much to say?

While some of us clam up during small talk conversations because we can't think of anything to say, some people have the opposite problem of going on for too too long.

"My mother has this wonderful saying," Abrahams says. "I know she didn't create it, but it's 'Tell me the time, don't build me the clock.'" In other words, be concise and to the point. "Many of us are clock-builders in these spontaneous speaking situations. And we have to remind ourselves when we start speaking just tell the time."

small talk, conversation, chit chat, talking to new people, talking too much, boring conversation "Tell me the time, don't build me the clock."Photo credit: Canva

What tools can I use if none of this is natural to me?

Abrahams says that thinking of a structure for what you're saying can be helpful. One structure he recommends is What? So what? Now what?

"The what is your idea, your product, your service, your belief," Abrahams explains. "The so what is why is it important to the person or people you're talking to? And then now what is what comes next. How do I get the conversation started?"

You can use this structure to frame something you're saying or as a series of questions to get conversation going.

"If I'm engaging you in conversation I can say, 'Hey, what brings you here? That's the what. When you answer, I can say, 'Oh, why is that important, or why do you find that interesting?' That's the so what. And then after that, I can ask a question like, 'Oh, so what more are you going to do, or what are you going to do next, or do you want to join me and go over here?'"

As with anything else, small talk takes practice, but eventually it becomes easier.

small talk, conversation, chit chat, talking to new people, starting a conversation Start a conversation by noting an observation in the environment.Photo credit: Canva

How do I get the conversation started?

There are the standards, like "How are you?" or "What brings you here?" but Abrahams says he likes to tie conversation openers to something relevant to the immediate situation, even if it's just an observation.

"Just the other day, I was in a situation for small talk and the very first thing I did, I came up to somebody I didn't know and I said, 'This is amazing to me. There are more people in this room wearing blue shirts than I think I've seen in a long time.' And the person said, 'You know what? You're right. That's really interesting.' And all of a sudden the conversation was off and running. All I did was notice something in the environment."

How do I end the conversation (gracefully)?

Getting out of a conversation can sometimes be harder than starting one. Abrahams suggests the "white flag" technique. In car racing, when the last lap comes around, someone waves a white flag to let racers know it's their last lap. In conversation, this can look like a signal that you're going to need to end the conversation just a bit before you actually do.

small talk, conversation, chit chat, talking to new people, talking, ending a conversation How to gracefully bow out of a conversation.Photo credit: Canva

"You say, I need to go in a moment, but—and this is where you ask one last question, provide one last bit of feedback. So you continue the conversation on for a little bit. It might sound something like this: 'I need to get going because there's some friends over there I need to meet. But before I go, I want to just a little bit more about that trip you were telling me about to Hawaii.' And together, you can draw the conversation to an end rather than you abruptly saying, 'Oh, I need to go to the bathroom.' Or, 'Wow, that looks like good food over there.'"

It may take some time and practice, but small talk doesn't have to be torturous, especially when you know it doesn't have to be perfect.

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This 3-step Harvard conversation trick makes shy people more likable

Making small talk easier? Yes, please.

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Two people having a conversation at a party.

Many people, especially those who are introverted and shy, are uncomfortable making small talk with someone new, whether they’re at a party, work event, or just standing in line at the grocery store. However, a 2017 Harvard study revealed a simple three-step trick to make you more likable and conversations more comfortable.

The researchers found that when approaching someone you have never met, asking a question and then two follow-up questions dramatically increases your likeability. The study was conducted by Harvard researchers and published in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology.

“We identify a robust and consistent relationship between question-asking and liking,” the study's authors wrote. “People who ask more questions, particularly follow-up questions, are better liked by their conversation partners.”

party, gathering, small talk, connection, conversation, shy people Two people chatting at a small gathering. Image via Canva

How do I make new people like me?

The study should be a big relief to shy people and introverts who are not interested in trying to impress people by going on and on about themselves.

According to the research, when you meet someone new at a party, the important thing is to approach them like it’s an interview, and you are the journalist. You just need one strong opening question and then you can follow up two times by asking them to clarify what they meant or expand on something they said.

“Think to yourself, 'I need to ask at least five questions in this conversation,' or 'I need to ask questions in this conversation, listen to the answers, and ask follow-up questions.' It’s easy to do, and—even better—requires almost no preparation,” Alison Wood Brooks, assistant professor and Hellman Faculty Fellow at Harvard Business School and a co-author of the study, said, according to Forbes.

People like those who ask follow-up questions not only because they enjoy talking about themselves, but because It also shows that their conversation partner is actively listening. They are paying attention, not looking over your shoulder at someone else. “Follow-up questions are an easy and effective way to keep the conversation going and show that the asker has paid attention to what their partner has said,” the researchers note.

The findings counter the strategy many use when meeting someone for the first time, whether on a blind date or at a networking event. For many, the first step is to try and impress the new person, but research shows that’s not the case.

shy, anxious, small talk, conversations, likeable A woman hides her face.Image via Canva

“The tendency to focus on the self when trying to impress others is misguided,” the study’s authors wrote, adding that “redirecting the topic of conversation to oneself, bragging, boasting or dominating the conversation, tend to decrease liking.”

It’s a pretty simple concept: people like talking about themselves and if you allow them, they’ll like you more. “Compared to those who do not ask many questions, people who do are better liked and learn more information from their conversation partners,” Brooks said. “This strategy does both. It’s an easy-to-deploy strategy anyone can use to not only be perceived as more emotionally intelligent but to actually be more emotionally intelligent as well.”

One of the studies cited by the authors focused on online dating and found that asking follow-up questions meant a greater chance of getting a second date. The researchers found that the top third of question-askers got the most second dates. When researchers looked at face-to-face speed daters, where they met 20 people at a time, they found that asking one more question on each date would help someone succeed in getting a “yes I want to see you again” on one more date.

The three-question rule has some caveats. You should make sure you're having a conversation, not an interrogation. “Asking a barrage of questions without disclosing information about yourself may come across as guarded, or worse, invasive,” Brooks says.

How much should I talk in a conversation?

conversation, group conversation, party, event, gathering, shy people A group of women look bored at a party.Image via Canva

While it’s important to ask questions when you meet someone new, you can’t let them do all the talking. Research shows that the perfect conversation ratio is 43:57. You do 43% of the talking and 57% of the listening. The goal is to make your conversation partner and new friend think, “Wow, that person really gets me” by the time the conversation ends.

The next time you find yourself in a social situation, you can feel a bit more relaxed knowing there is a scientifically proven way to ensure that people will find you likable and a good conversationalist. Remember the three-question rule: Open with a question and then ask two follow-ups.

Need even more Harvard-sourced tips for painless conversations? Listen to what the Harvard Business Review has to say:

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This article originally appeared last year.

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Communication coach shares 7 ways to get out of a conversation without being awkward or rude

For many folks, figuring out how to end a conversation is even harder than starting one.

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It's not always easy to ease your way out of a conversation.

Have you ever found yourself in a conversation you don't really want to be in anymore? Maybe the conversation's gone on too long or the person has you cornered or you just genuinely don't have time to keep talking with them?

For some people, figuring out how to end a conversation without being rude or making it awkward is a challenge. Social etiquette is not always intuitive, and while some seem to to effortlessly navigate all kinds of social situations, many of us struggle with certain aspects of socializing. Most people might assume that starting a conversation is the hardest thing, but ending one can be equally or more challenging. You can't just suddenly say, "Okay, bye," without warning, but that transition between conversing and leaving doesn't always happen naturally.

Thankfully, communication coach Alexander Lyon has offered 7 clear ways to wrap up a conversation politely to help those who need a little help.

- YouTubewww.youtube.com

Here's what he suggests:

1. End on your turn

Every conversation is a back-and-forth, with people taking turns talking. Interrupting the other person to say you need to go can come across as rude, so make sure you plan to end the conversation when you're already talking. "All the rest of the tips flow from this concept," Lyon says.

2. State a time limit

This can come at any point in the conversation. If you're talking to someone you know might drag it out, it might be good to place it at the beginning of the conversation: "Hey Steve, I've got about five minutes. What's up?" That way they know the conversation time is going to be limited from the get go. You can also drop the time when you're ready to wrap up: "I only have one minute before I have to go, so let me finish with this thought." That way the person knows the conversation is coming to a close.

3. Start packing up

Those who feel awkward about ending a conversation might feel like it's awkward to start gathering your things before the conversation is concluded. But it's a normal thing to signal through behavior, and packing up signals to the other person that you're ready to end the conversation.

"You start putting things in your bag. You get your keys out. You put your coat on. This shows them oh something's changing here. Alex is about to leave." Lyon says these are non-verbal actions are called leave-taking behaviors. "This is what we all do naturally when we're about to go and so these cues are really known and powerful to most people. They will pick up on them," he says.

4. Say you've gotta go

This might seem obvious, but Lyon assures us that that's exactly why it works. "You have to use phrases that they're used to hearing like 'I've gotta run,' 'I've got to get going,'" he says. "Those are phrases that signal, once again, that you're going to go. A lot of times people even feel like just saying that feels rude. But I assure you these are just common phrases that, wrapped into the other tips, they're going to understand that this means you're going to go."

via GIPHY

5. Tell them what's next

Share what you're going to be doing after the conversation. "If you say things like, 'I have a meeting to go to' or 'I have some projects that I've got to get back on' or 'I'm a little behind on some work,' then they'll know that, 'Oh he's not just abandoning the conversation because he doesn't like me. He's going because he has something else to do,'" explains Lyon. You don't have to be super specific, just clear and concise.

6. Insert polite pleasantries

This is where you say things like, "It was so great catching up!" or "I hope we get to chat again soon," or "I'm so happy we got a chance to talk," to indicate that it's time to move on but you've enjoyed the conversation. Lyon shares that these kinds of statements signal to the person that the conversation is coming to a close and are such a normal part of interactions that the person will understand what they mean.

7. Apologize and repeat any of the above, if necessary

If the person is really holding on and not taking the hint, say something like, "So sorry, I really have to get going, but it was so lovely to chat with you," or something similar. "A lot of times people need that little extra reinforcement toward the end," Lyon says. He says you don't want to drag the apology or make a big deal out of it—just a quick, "Sorry, but I gotta go," or "I apologize, but I'm running late," will do. "It doesn't mean you've actually done something wrong that you need to apologize for. It's just a way once again to signal that you're trying to be respectful to that person," Lyon explains.

Even if some of these tips feel awkward or rude, Lyon assures us that they aren't. People with social anxieties can often overthink interactions, so having such reassurances can be helpful. Courtesy in conversation is one of the ways we maintain social connections, so learning how to politely end a conversation is a valuable skill.

You can follow Communication Coach Alexander Lyon on YouTube.

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Garry Civitello called into C-SPAN with his heart and insecurities on his sleeve.

Civitello, a white man from Asheville, North Carolina, wanted to speak with Heather McGhee, a black woman and president of Demos, a public policy group working to promote democracy for all. But his question wasn't specifically about public policy. It was about what he could do to be a better person.

"I'm a white male, and I'm prejudiced. What can I do to change, you know, to be a better American?"

McGhee was initially caught off guard by the question but took an opportunity to respond from the heart:

"I told him thank you, and I just came up with some thoughts about how he could integrate his life and learn to have more empathy and compassion."

For Civitello and others looking to make a change, McGhee offered a few places to start. From getting to know black families to asking tough questions of himself and others.

All images via Upworthy/YouTube.

Before long, video of their brief exchange was viewed more than 8 million times.

McGhee saw a unique opportunity to build on their conversation.

She traveled to North Carolina to meet with Civitello, and the two had a positive discussion, asking each other questions and learning about their backgrounds and experiences. For both, the opportunity to grow and learn from each other was a powerful thing.

"When you get to know people, usually your fears were unjustified," Civitello said.

Regardless of our backgrounds, all of us have biases to confront.

But when we confront those insecurities head on, we can grow and change for the better. It starts with moving outside our own comfort zones and challenging norms.

"It's time for us to have a conversation with white folks and for white folks to have a conversation with each other about how it doesn't have to be a zero-sum game," McGhee said.

As Civitello and McGhee revealed, the conversations are tough but necessary.

"It's just something that we don't practice, and taking that first step is the hardest thing," Civitello told McGhee.

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