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Woman realizes she comes from a 'recreational argument' family and so many people feel seen

Understanding this phenomenon is so helpful, no matter how you feel about debate vs. conflict.

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Do you come from a recreational argument family?

Have you ever noticed that some families can get into heated arguments—raised voices, vehement disagreement, rhetorical takedowns—and then act as if no actual conflict has taken place? If you come from a totally-conflict-avoidant or a genuinely-conflict-ridden family, such passionate debates might feel uncomfortable. If you come from a "recreational argument" family, it's just what people do when they get together.

A woman's realization that she grew up in the latter kind of family has prompted discussions about the whole idea and has people from all kinds of backgrounds feeling seen. Emmaline (@emmaleendryer) shared in a video, "As someone who came from a recreational argument family…I just learned the term "recreational argument"—which I thought we were all doing—and I owe a lot of people a lot of apologies."

Why does she owe some apologies? Because if you come from a recreational argument family, where argument is treated as a form of entertainment and debate is seen as an enjoyable activity like playing cornhole, you might assume that's the norm for everyone. And if you assume it's normal, you might argue with someone just because, or perhaps even to try to bond with them, and wind up surprised when they don't respond the way you expect them to. Either the person doesn't volley with you at all and just seems confused, or they engage in the debate but leave genuinely upset by the interaction.

A Reddit post explained the phenomenon like this:

"There are some people who 'argue' for fun. Flexing their rhetorical skills over something of no real-life consequence is a nice way to pass an afternoon. My In-Laws are like this. My father-in-law will argue with anyone about literally anything because to him, this is a fun game and he'd like to play with you, so Thanksgiving and Passover are always somewhat fraught holidays. I suspect a number of people online who are 'trolling' aren't actually trolling, but engaging in what they see as a Perfectly Normal Invitation to play.

"There are about the same number of people, in my experience, that find being in the general proximity of other people arguing the most agitating bullsh_t imaginable. Some people experience this as extreme, irrational annoyance, like people with misophonia when they hear chewing, and for some people the clinical meaning of the term 'Triggered' is applicable here because disagreements will, genuinely, trigger major psychological distress. Often, the more pointless and trivial the argument, the more agitating it is.

"The majority of people are somewhere in the middle of these extremes, and would like everyone else to mind their manners."

arguing, recreational argument, debate, discussion, mental exercise Some people love to argue for fun, others hate it. Giphy

To be clear, recreational arguing isn't fighting. There's no actual conflict taking place, but for those who are used to only experiencing debates or disagreements as fights, a passionate debate can feel like—and therefore be mistaken for—real conflict.

People in the comments clearly fell into different camps, further elucidating the point. Those who came from recreational argument families discussed the enjoyment they get out of arguing:

"It’s fun to debate vigorously."

"What’s the point in having a brain if you aren’t going to use it? I could argue about literally anything because it’s fun to really think about sh_t. I don’t understand how you can enjoy life without a little recreational argument tbh."

@thelivstorygoes

gotta go write some apologies hold on #recreationalarguing #familydynamics #roastfest #siblings #highcortisol

"I love recreational arguing. Growing up my siblings and I were constantly like we’re not fighting — this is just how we talk."

"Why are you arguing??' Bro I thought this was just a conversation?"

"I have never heard the term recreational arguing before but this is the perfect explanation for why I enjoy a good debate and other people hate me for it 😂."

"I married outside of the recreational argument community. I love him but it’s tough."

"I come from a playful roasting family and i for sure accidentally bullied some kids in elementary school that I thought I was friends with."

However, those who didn't grow up with that normalized explained how uncomfortable it is to be around:

"It’s so stressful for someone who does not do recreational arguing. 😭"

"YEP I go into full fight or flight every single time. It’s so emotionally taxing for me to even witness it!"

recreational argument, debate, discussion, time out, calm down Arguments are stressful for some people, even when they're fun for others. Giphy GIF by 5A5Bseries

"Yep my husband and father in law discuss politics and religion regularly and energetically. they get so riled up sometimes and I just hide in my room. I don't do raised voices well, even when I know they aren't mad, they are just loud talkers. 😅"

"Cannot emphasize enough how much I DESPISE recreational arguing and debates. Literally hell on earth to be in a group of people like that."

And then there were the people who came from one kind of family but felt like they belonged in another:

"i grew up in a household where people just did not talk to each other. The first time i spent time with a recreational argument family it was like i was freed from a cage. I love it. i love talking and thinking and exploring and learning."

"Try being a recreational arguer in a family where people argue argue. I just wanna have a nice fun disagreement but now everyone is mad."

recreational argument, debate, discussion, conversation, discourse, fighting There can sometimes be a fine line between debating and fighting.Photo credit: Canva

"I yearn to be a recreational argument family so I married into one… visiting my own family I often forget & get labeled argumentative… like yeah I’m trying to have stimulation conversation here."

"What is it called when your family tries to be a recreational argument family but it almost always blows up into real fights? 😭😭"

Emmaline's admission that she might owe some apologies highlights the importance of understanding these different perspectives. If we assume all people view passionate discussions the way we do, we risk creating actual conflict or at the very least some uncomfortable feelings. When we listen to different people's perspectives like those shared in the comments of Emmaline's video, it's easier to see when it may not be the right time—or the right person—to engage in a debate, especially if it's just for fun.

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Woman is baffled upon discovering her boyfriend washes the laundry detergent cap with his clothes

Shyamalan twist: Commenters say he's right.

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Woman is horrified to learn that her boyfriend washes the detergent cap in the washing machine.

I really thought I had seen it all when it came to people's weird hygiene habits, and I've definitely had more than my fill of content about men's "weaponized incompetence." There are the guys that don't know how to wash properly in the shower, men with engineering degrees who claim not to know how to operate a washing machine, people that don't clean their legs, etc. Enough!

Then I stumbled on a video that was the perfect bait and switch. It completely turned all of my expectations on their head and left me questioning the very reality we live in. It was that powerful.

It all started when a woman made a bizarre discovery after stumbling upon her boyfriend doing laundry. After putting his clothes in the washer, he filled the detergent cap up with the soap, and then chucked the entire cap into the washing machine. With the clothes. And then started it.


waynes world, laundry, washing machine, clothesWe all have our own unique laundry habits.Giphy

"Help??" the caption read. "I just asked my bf where the cap for the detergent is and he said 'Oh I just fill it up and throw it in?' With ALL the clothes??"

The woman, who goes by @Iluka on TikTok, called it "mental behaviour."

But her boyfriend was not quick to back down, insisting that not only was his technique normal, it was actually recommended. The tail end of the video shows him reading the fine print instructions on the back of the detergent bottle in a desperate effort to prove he's not crazy.

Throwing a plastic cup into the washing machine with all your clothes is definitely a confusing choice. In fact, Iluka found it so jarring and strange that she felt compelled to share it with her audience of followers to get some insight into where her boyfriend could have learned the unique behavior. You can watch the whole hilarious interaction here:


@ilukugh

Mental behaviour in the house tonight

Ready for the big twist? Many commenters insist that the boyfriend is doing it right.

An astounding 31,000 people commented on the video, indicating that it had struck a nerve, for better or worse. People came crawling out of the woodwork to argue that, yes, washing the laundry detergent cap is a thing: The idea is to clean off all the soap scum so it doesn't get sticky or gummed up.

So, no, the boyfriend wasn't being dense after all! This is a twist that would make M. Night Shyamalan proud.

"He’s right but tell him we said that he’s wrong," a commenter said.

"Girl, don’t make me defend a man," joked another.

"i do this?? so the cap isn’t covered in gross [smelly] soap residue??" someone added.

"[So] it doesn’t get sticky" another user clarified.

This is not a new idea, apparently. There are dozens of Reddit threads over the years listing this as a "Life Hack" to prevent detergent drips and general stickiness. There's even evidence that putting the cup in the wash is the proper, manufacturer-approved way to do it! Although some people with top-loading washers will choose to start the washer and use the running water that floods in to give the cup a quick rinse rather than running it through the full cycle.

Obviously I had to go run and check the back of my own bottle of laundry detergent. I didn't see any instructions there about washing the cap, but one woman on Facebook did share indisputable proof on the back of her own bottle of Tide. Apparently, the little plastic caps can even hold up to the dryer!


Still, not everyone is on board. Many of the nearly seven million TikTok viewers had never heard of this bizarre technique and insisted that the "other side" was making it all up:

"Girl I've NEVER heard of anyone doing this either this blew my mind, are the people in these comments gaslighting"

Washing your detergent cap in a full cycle definitely sounds made-up, but it's definitively not. The proof is right there in front of us. Now I'm just wondering how I lived for 38 years without ever knowing about all the people doing this regularly.

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My Gen Z teen's reaction to the debate between John McCain and Barack Obama was shocking

"Why were they so nice to each other?"

John-Mccain-Barack-Obama | Pimkie | Flickr

My Gen Zer's reaction to the McCain/Obama debate was shocking

Gen Z is a very politically aware generation, though many of them are still in high school they keep up with the political landscape of the world. There are many Gen Z political and social movements as well as official organizations fully run by these young people. Given how politically active Gen Z is, sometimes it's easy to forget they weren't old enough to be politically conscious when Barack Obama was running for president. It wasn't that long ago but some people, it's already history.

Their exposure to politics came to be in some pretty harsh and polarizing times where they were often at the center of the discussion. For many of the older Gen Zers, they felt thrusted into the political sphere to fight for gun reform whether they were ready or not.

Because politics has never been off limits, and I encourage them to research policies to form their own opinions, I hadn't realized there was something missing. Just like nearly every geriatric Millennial I waste a good amount of time scrolling through TikTok while doing mundane chores. But this time my 16-year-old was watching over my shoulder. I was stopped on a video clip of John McCain and Barack Obama's presidential debate in 2008, which happens the be the year my 16-year-old was born.

After a brief comment about how young former President Obama looked in the clip, my child asked, " who is that guy," pointing to McCain, "and why were they so nice to each other?" Admittedly I was baffled by the question and sought clarification to which they explained, "If the old guy is a Republican and Obama's a Democrat then why are they just talking like normal people? If politicians could talk like that we would probably get a lot more stuff done."

We both left the video shocked for very different reasons. It was then that I realized my kid's only conscious exposure to American politics was post-2016. It was hard for them to comprehend that politicians being cordial and respectful toward each other was normal prior to the end of Obama's second term. Of course there were cheap shots taken here or there but they didn't consistently devolve into the shouting matches Gen Z has become accustomed to witnessing by our elected officials.

Joe Biden GIF by PBS NewsHourGiphy

My child couldn't quite understand how American politicians went from being able to have respectful conversations while disagreeing to shouting slurs on the House floor. They were equally as taken aback by the content of the conversations the two men were having noting that they were actually talking about political differences on how to help people and they both seemed to "actually care." In the short three-minute video both men were calm, respectful and didn't attempt to shout over one another. They followed the rules of the debate while still countering each other's stance on issues that impact the daily life of Americans.

McCain and Obama's mutual respect wasn't something that was just for the cameras. While they disagreed on a lot of things politically, they both understood that they had different approaches to doing the same job: caring for Americans. The political opponents weren't waiting for an opportunity to make the other look bad publicly, they saw each other has human first and politician second which is why it wasn't surprising that Obama delivered McCain's eulogy after he lost his battle with cancer.

As an adult that has been voting since George W. Bush ran for president, I was familiar with the normalcy of healthy cordial debates, my kid on the other hand was convinced that this debate was an anomaly. That's when we watched another video of McCain defending Obama at a town hall to solidify how normal it was. Their disbelief of political decorum and their categorization of "red bad, blue good" based on videos coming from our political leaders was a glaring condemnation of what American politics has morphed into.

People pick a political party like they're picking a sports team and have become accustomed to seeing them speak to each other in a way that wouldn't fly in any middle school in the country. This political devolvement has trickled down onto the American people and the younger generation is consuming this via social media as "normal." If this is our normal now then how far will we devolve before the pendulum swings back in the other direction? Is it too late to require better behavior from our politicians so we can course correct before the youngest Gen Zers are of voting age?

Though my child and I had very different reasons for our mutual shock after watching that video, I certainly agree with them. If politicians spent more time speaking to each other with respect and actually taking time to listen to the points made by their counterpart, we would have a much better outcome. Politicians are meant to compromise to find the best solution for all Americans, not just the loudest but that can't be done without listening to understand and treating your colleagues with respect.

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People's wrong answers to this 'easy' LSAT question are why public discourse is so hard

The basic reading comprehension and critical thinking question almost feels like a litmus test.

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LSAT questions start easy and get harder as the test progresses.

Public discourse can be great when it's done well, when everyone brings thoughtful, well-informed opinions to the table and puts forth cogent arguments backed up by evidence. We don't all have to agree on everything—differences in perspectives and priorities are important ingredients in a democratic society—but the quality of the actual arguments themselves matter.

Since the advent of social media, public discourse has not been so great, especially on the internet. The written nature of online discussions seems like it would lend itself to fewer misconceptions and better understanding, but it doesn't. People draw erroneous and illogical conclusions all the time, and it often feels like reading comprehension and critical thinking skills are hard to come by. According to an unintentional social experiment on X, there may be some truth to that.

An X user (@sarahpatt08) shared a photo of a question from the LSAT, the test people have to pass in order to be admitted to law school, and asked if people found the question easy or difficult. The instructions are partially cut off but appear to indicate that you are to choose the best answer based only on the information given, avoiding assumptions that are not directly supported by the passage.

The question reads:

"Physical education should teach people to pursue healthy, active lifestyles as they grow older. But the focus on competitive sports in most schools causes most of the less competitive students to turn away from sports. Having learned to think of themselves as unathletic, they do not exercise enough to stay healthy.

Which of one of the following is most strongly supported by the statements above, if they are true?

(A) Physical education should include noncompetitive activities.

(B) Competition causes most students to turn away from sports.

(C) People who are talented at competitive physical endeavors exercise regularly.

(D) The mental aspects of exercise are as important as the physical ones.

(E) Children should be taught the dangers of a sedentary lifestyle."

These kinds of reading comprehension and reasoning questions are common to tests like the LSAT and the SAT. One way to tackle them is to start eliminating the answers that are not directly supported by the text. Starting from the bottom:

(E) is not supported because the text doesn't say anything about a sedentary lifestyle actually being dangerous, and this answer doesn't include anything the passage is focused on (competitive sports turning kids who aren't competitive away from exercise).

(D) is not supported because while competitiveness could be considered a mental aspect of exercise, it's not always. And there's nothing in the text to support the idea that mental and physical aspects of exercise are equally important.

(C) is not supported because the text doesn't say anything about talent. Someone could be competitive and enjoy competitive sports but be totally untalented, and being talented at something doesn't necessarily mean you do it regularly.

(B) is not supported because there is no indication from the passage that most students (in general) aren't competitive, only that most of the less competitive students turn away from sports.

(A) is the answer most supported by the passage because the crux of the argument in the passage is that noncompetitive students are often turned off of physical education by the emphasis on sports in most schools. Therefore, the most logical conclusion is that having more noncompetitive activities would get more kids involved in physical education.

For some people, the correct answer was simple and obvious. For others, not so much. Some people made what they thought were strong arguments for (D). Others insisted it was (E). Not many said (C) but there were a handful on the (B) train. And those who knew the answer to be (A) were taken aback by how many people came to different conclusions.

And therein lies one answer to why our public discourse often feels like it can't get anywhere. Answering a reading comprehension and reasoning question like this correctly is easy for some people. Some think it's easy but then get the wrong answer, and some see multiple answers as equal contenders for "best." Everyone believes they're the ones thinking critically and using logic, but many people fail to recognize the assumptions they make when reading and the biases and unsupported ideas that slip into their reasoning.

The most supported answer based on the text is (A). Is that what you got?

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