{"transcript":{"_id":"534d5c6e3ea6631f27000046","audio_id":null,"created_at":"2014-04-15T16:21:02.844Z","modifier_id":null,"nugget_id":"534d5c6e3ea6631f2700003f","public_nugget_id":"565cdce66b48d40003002840","sent_to_speechpad":false,"status":"manual","text":"

Act Two. Help Wanted.

Ira Glass

We've arrived at Act Two of our program. Act Two, Help Wanted. So this story is about a group that's pretty universally reviled. I think if there ever was a group that people would want to tar and feather, this would be the group. And that's pedophiles. Though I have to say, before we start, this is not the story you usually hear about pedophiles.

Reporter Luke Malone met somebody who has those feelings for young children and definitely does not want to act on them, and has to cobble together his own way to deal with the problem which raises the question is there a way to treat pedophiles. Could there be a way to treat pedophiles?

A warning, before we start, this story is definitely not for kids. Most of the names have been changed and two of the people in this story have asked to have their voices altered. Also, though there's nothing graphic in this story at all, victims of child sexual abuse should consider this a trigger warning.

Everybody else, I will say, I have never heard anybody talk about these issues the way that the people in this story talk about them. I feel like I came out of hearing this story understanding something I really did not know before. So here's Luke Malone.

Luke Malone

My interest in pedophiles began in the wake of the Jerry Sandusky trial. He had just been sentenced on 45 counts related to child sex abuse. It got me thinking about how all this starts and if there's a way to prevent it. I mean, Sandusky wasn't born a 68-year-old child molester. How old are pedophiles when they start thinking about kids this way? Do they ever want to do something to stop themselves? And if they do, who can they turn to?

I spoke to experts and dug around online. I came across a site, a group of people who acknowledged their attraction, but want help dealing with it. Most of the men I spoke with first noticed an interest in children when they were about 13 or 14. I had no idea. I asked how they reacted when they first knew something was up.

For most of them, this was going back 40 or 50 years. And I realized that I needed to speak with younger guys, ones who were going through this right now. I asked the men if they knew anyone like that. And a week or so later, I got an email.

My name is Adam, it read. I'm 18, and I'm the leader of a support group for pedophiles around my age. I'll be very happy to talk with you. Adam is now 19. Just to remind you, Adam isn't his real name. And his voice has been altered to protect his identity. But even knowing he'd be anonymous, he was uncomfortable.

Adam

You know, nervous.

Luke Malone

Why?

Adam

Just don't think I'm a very vulgar person. It's even weird for me to say it out loud. You know, it's something I type, probably 50 times a day, just chatting with some people online, but actually saying it out loud is not very easy for me.

Luke Malone

Do you see yourself as a pedophile?

Adam

Uh, yes.

Luke Malone

And have you ever acted on your attraction?

Adam

No.

Luke Malone

Here's the first of many distinctions, I wasn't clear on when I first met Adam. And it's an important one to make. Technically, you don't have to act on your desires to be a pedophile. Pedophilia marks the attraction, not the behavior. Adam doesn't want to act on his attractions.

Adam is self-diagnosed, as is everyone in his online support group. They go by the medical definition of pedophilia found in the DSM, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, basically the Bible of the American Psychiatric Association, which says that in order to be a pedophile, you have to harbor sexual fantasies about or engage sexually with a prepubescent child for six months or more, and you have to be 16 or above and more than five years older than the child. You also need to have either acted on these urges, or the fantasies must cause distress or difficulty.

Guys like Adam hit puberty and discover they're attracted to little kids. And what's remarkable is that they have to navigate that all on their own, with no frame of reference. Everything they're going through, they have to figure out for themselves at, like, 11. I was surprised when Adam first told me the specifics of his attraction. It was hard to relate to, and so you're prepared, difficult to hear.

He's most attracted to kids between the ages of eight and three. He was 14 when he started watching porn, porn involving children. For privacy, he found a way to connect an old computer that he had in his room. Before long, he was downloading it on a daily basis. He couldn't believe how easy it was.

Adam

It was exhilarating. That's the most accurate thing I could say about it.

Luke Malone

I think for people who are listening to this show, when they hear that, it's going to be kind of hard for them to understand what you're feeling. And I really want them to. So can you tell me, did you have any concerns for the kid in the videos at this time? Did it occur that someone else was abusing them by making these videos?

Adam

No. First off, the first [? child ?] pornography I came across I don't think it even involved adults. What I thought as, I'd like to do these types of things. So it's great that I can watch other people who are closer to my age range do these types of things. I just see two kids doing something that I fantasized about doing. So, you know, I'm one of the kids.

Luke Malone

Remember, he was 14.

Adam

And it was a little while later, as I started watching this stuff more and more, when I kind of realized that I was getting older, and it wasn't some phase I was going through, but the children I was interested in weren't getting older, you know, to follow along with me, but they were actually getting younger.

Luke Malone

Did it strike you as wrong?

Adam

At that age, no. I knew it was illegal. I knew it was considered wrong. But I did not know why it was considered wrong. I figured it was something that wasn't allowed. I'd been using it for two years, before I started to think these children are real people. And they could potentially be hurt with this.

Luke Malone

The way Adam figured it out was particularly brutal. He was 16, and he came across a video he wanted to unsee. There's no easy way to say this. It involved a very small child. An 18-month-old.

Adam

I remember thinking that I wanted to reach through the computer screen and kill the person. I was just so horrified at what I saw. At that point, I knew something was really wrong.

Luke Malone

He began reading up on child abuse and was upset at what he learned. He decided he wanted to stop watching child porn, and he needed help if he was going to do that. For that help, Adam turned back to the internet. He posted on a mental health forum, explaining his situation and asking for advice. Two women who were child abuse survivors befriended him. With their help, Adam says he stopped watching porn. But in its place grew a deep depression.

It wasn't like he'd stopped having sexual thoughts about kids. He says he felt like a monster for having viewed the videos, but also just for having the attractions. Some days, he thought about killing himself. He didn't know what else to do. He was 16. He wanted to talk to someone. So he started with a cautious letter to his mum.

Dear Mummy, it begins, I'm writing this letter to you, as I cannot bring myself to say what I need to say to you to your face. It would simply be too painful for me. I am always overshadowed with feelings of depression, guilt, and shame. I'm really sick and tired of covering these feelings up. I want you to let me see a psychologist. I understand you probably have a lot to ask me. But I need some time to get my head wrapped around things. Love, Adam.

He didn't explain the source of the problem, and his mother never asked. Instead, she made him an appointment at a local therapist for a week or so later.

Adam

I remember it was a Friday morning, very early in the day. I was her first patient. We got there, even before she got there. And I was just very nervous. I knew exactly what was coming. I'd known for so long that I was going to walk in there and what I was going to say. And I'd rehearsed it in my head.

Luke Malone

And what was the script you'd been playing over and over in your head?

Adam

I'm a pedophile, and I'm addicted to child pornography. And I remember I walked in there, and we started talking. And then she kind of said, so what are you here for? And I said, well, I'm very anxious. And she said, well, why are you anxious? And my heart was beating. I'd never been so terrified in my life.

But I uttered the words. I said, well, this is difficult to say, but I'm a pedophile, and I'm addicted to child pornography. And I saw kind of a look of horror on her face, and she asked me to repeat that. She must have thought that she misheard me for something like that. But I repeated it. Then, immediately, she went from being this very nice, gentle person to very harsh and critical.

Luke Malone

What did she say to you?

Adam

Well, she raised her voice, telling me this isn't OK. And we talked about it a bit. I mentioned that at that point, I'd been, I think, 11 weeks clean of child pornography. But I was terrified the whole time. And I remember she tried talking with me about why I have these attractions.

And she was obviously convinced that I had trouble talking with people my own age, so I felt less judged by younger kids, and that's why I was interested in them. And that's apparently a very common thing for therapists who aren't at all trained in this area to think.

Luke Malone

So she didn't even believe that you were a pedophile. Just that you couldn't kind of make it with kids your own age, essentially, yeah? Is that what you're saying?

Adam

Yes, yes.

Luke Malone

And what did you say to her in response?

Adam

Oh, well, I disagreed. I said, no, I really firmly believe that's not the case. I know what I'm attracted to. And it's not like I'm-- I had friends. It's not like I didn't have a single friend. I said, look, these attractions are more intense than they are towards any adult I've ever met or seen. And I'm really confident that it's not just being scared to talk to people my own age.

Luke Malone

Was it kind of weird or frustrating kind of disclosing this massive thing about yourself and then having to kind of just really drive it on home and prove it to her?

Adam

Yeah, it was definitely-- it was annoying. But I'll tell you the feeling that overcame me most the whole time was that I was being judged. That's definitely what I felt most when I left later. I considered writing an email to her, apologizing for dropping such a bombshell on her. And I saw her again.

Luke Malone

And what happened in that second session?

Adam

So she was a little calmer. She'd obviously had some time to think about it. She basically told me, pretty much instantly, that she couldn't help me. And she said that she'd looked around, but she couldn't really find much.

And then within a few minutes, she asks, how I'd feel if she told my mother about what was going on. So first, my heart obviously started beating much faster, and I became incredibly anxious. And I said, I really don't want to do that. So she left the room for a minute, and then came back in with my mother.

Adam's Mother

And I sat down. And the first thing that I recall the therapist saying is we've got a problem.

Luke Malone

This is Adam's mum. Her voice has also been altered.

Adam's Mother

The therapist looked at me, and I can't remember her exact words, but it was something like--

Adam

Adam is addicted to pornography. And then she paused for a little bit, and then she said, a very specific type of pornography. Then she said it's child pornography.

Adam's Mother

And she continued to say that she couldn't see him. We then talked a little bit, not details, about what had been going on. And Adam did not contribute at all. He sat there just shaking and looking at the floor. And I do remember that she then turned to Adam and said, how do you feel? And he said, I feel like I'm going to throw up.

Adam

You know, my mother, I'm sure, reacted the best I really could have hoped for. She kind of put her arm on my shoulder and squeezed a little bit. She seemed to be supportive. I'm sure she was in shock, probably kind of horrified, but at least she was able to hide that. And the fact that she was able to do that, it meant so much to me.

Adam's Mother

And I looked at him, although he wouldn't give me eye contact. I looked at him, and I said, Adam, we're going to help with this. Whatever it is, we can help with it. And don't worry, I'm with you.

Luke Malone

On the car ride home, Adam told her that he wasn't just attracted to children, but also to adults.

Adam

You know, and I explained that I'd never done anything to hurt someone before and that I never would do something to hurt someone.

Adam's Mother

When I had moments to be alone afterwards, I was very devastated in realizing the enormity of what we were dealing with. I was shocked. It was the last thing that I could have fathomed that was a problem for him. There were absolutely no signs. I have no earthly idea how Adam may have developed his attraction to children.

Luke Malone

She and Adam both say he wasn't abused. His home life was stable. He had good relationships with his siblings. Adam's mum did find him a new therapist, one who specialized in porn addiction. This one didn't normally treat minors, and he was reluctant to take Adam on. She had to plead with him to accept her son as a client. He eventually agreed.

She says until our interview, his two therapists are the only people she's spoken to about Adam's attractions. She hasn't told a friend, not a therapist of her own, not her husband.

Right now, if a pedophile shows up in a therapist's office wanting treatment, it puts a therapist in a difficult situation. First, there are no guidelines on how to treat pedophiles who haven't offended. There's a lot of confusion in the field about how to handle them. Also, they're in a tough legal position.

If a therapist thinks someone poses a threat to a child, they're legally obligated to turn them in, because of mandatory reporting laws. They can lose their license if they don't. So when it comes to counseling a pedophile, therapists have to gauge how likely that person is to act. They're in a sticky situation where they have to make a judgment call about how dangerous someone is.

Professor Elizabeth Letourneau is one of the top researchers on child sexual abuse in the world. She's done this work for 25 years. She says the great thing about mandatory reporting laws are that they've brought to light lots of crimes against children. But as they got more popular, she saw it affect the number of people reaching out for help.

Elizabeth Letourneau

Self-referrals for help really dried up. And people watched helplines just go silent, because folks are too afraid to reach out for help. The consequences are too high.

Luke Malone

Professor Letourneau is the director of the Moore Center for the Prevention of Child Sexual Abuse at Johns Hopkins University. And it's with that mandate, the prevention of child sexual abuse, that she's pushing hard for research into people like Adam. Amazingly, there's very little research on pedophilia. We don't know much about the sexuality of adolescents, let alone what might make someone a pedophile.

Elizabeth Letourneau

It is a gigantic black hole in science.

Luke Malone

Among things we don't know, we don't know that there's a connection between being abused and developing an attraction to kids. Crazy, right? We don't know what's normal, when it comes to the sexual development of children. It might be normal for a 12 year old to be attracted to a six or eight year old.

Another thing that has not been researched in-depth is if having an attraction to kids makes it more dangerous to be around them. On its face, it seems obvious. But there is no evidence to support it.

The research that we do have, and this is from a very small sample size, suggests that pedophiles are more lucky to be shorter, left-handed, and have a lower IQ. Another study says that being knocked unconscious before the age of 13 may be a factor. It shows just how little we've scratched the surface.

For years, Letourneau has been trying to change all this, to get money for research, and for prevention programs. But there's not much money for that. Funders don't want to be associated with pedophilia research. The stigma is too great. Even someone like Letourneau, who wants to do this research in order to prevent children from being abused, has been called a pedophile sympathizer, simply for advocating these programs.

Elizabeth Letourneau

If we can prevent this, we can prevent a lot of harm and a lot of cost. And we just don't. It's nuanced. It's difficult to wrap your head around. It's a lot easier to say these guys are monsters. Let's put them in prison. Let's put them on a registry. Let's put them in civil commitment facilities. And forget about them.

Luke Malone

The place that research is most solid is the numbers. Studies suggest that an astonishingly large number of men are pedophiles. A respected survey by Michael Seto, director of the Forensic Research Unit at the University of Ottawa, found that 3% of all men have sexually offended against a prepubescent child. Though not all these men would be considered pedophiles.

But he goes on to estimate that 1% to 3% of men would meet the diagnostic criteria for pedophilia, which equates to anywhere between 1.2 million and 3.4 million pedophiles in the US alone. That means there are lots of people out there who presumably try not to offend, with nowhere to turn to for help. There's almost no research to explain why they are the way they are, and no known treatment. Which is how a teenager might conclude that his best option is to invent his own way forward.

At 17, Adam started searching online for other guys like himself, young men struggling to deal with their attraction to kids. And some responded. They got to talking online. And soon there were a bunch of them, communicating on a daily basis. Before long, Adam realized that he had inadvertently formed a support group for young pedophiles.

There are currently nine members, ranging in age from 16 to 22, eight men and one woman. They communicate in the same way that any bunch of teenagers do-- Gchat, text, email, the odd phone call, or video chat. And there's usually at least a few people online each night. I've talked to five of them, and met three of those in person. They all said they're glad to have found the group. And for most, it's the only outlet they have. Everyone I've spoken to has a story about how the group saved them. A 22-year-old college student told me this one.

Anonymous College Student

There was a time when I was really running out of hope for the future. I was unemployed, and I felt like no one was going to give me a shot. And I felt like I had literally no shot in life. And I kind of wanted to kill myself. I didn't do it. The first thing I thought of was especially Adam, in specific, but the rest of them as well, that I couldn't let them down like that.

Luke Malone

The governing principle of the group is that you can only be a part of it if you agree that it's wrong to have sex with kids. There are other pedophile support groups online who feel the opposite, who advocate for the abolishment of age of consent laws. Others suggest that molesting children is wrong because it's illegal, but stop short of taking a moral stand.

Adam's group absolutely takes a moral stand. A few times, he's found himself trying to convince potential members of the group that having sex with children is wrong. And occasionally, Adam has to turn someone away.

Adam

There was one time someone came in, and he admitted to me pretty much right away that he'd done some sexual things with a five-year-old kid. And right then and there, I said we can't have you. First off, they're a risk. But what's more is I think, that I'll admit, I have a bias. I think we are better people than those who go out and hurt kids.

Luke Malone

Did you tell him that?

Adam

I explained to him, you know, to the best of my ability, that what he did was very wrong. And that the most noble thing he could possibly do would be to tell the kid's parents so that at least that kid could get the help he might need.

Luke Malone

And what was his response?

Adam

Something like maybe.

Luke Malone

In a different world, this person would be talking to a professional, not a 19-year-old with no training at all. Or maybe this person would just be in prison.

Here's another important distinction. Eight out of the nine in Adam's group say they are nonexclusive pedophiles, which means they are also attracted to their peers or adults, in addition to kids. That's important because researchers like Elizabeth Letourneau think it might be possible to push people like that to become more attracted to people their own age, if you start young.

Elizabeth Letourneau

Yeah, so through hanging out with peers more often, engaging in fun things with peers more often, really increasing that, I really believe, at least for some kids, some portion of kids who are sexually attracted to children, it's changeable. I don't want to start with the premise that it's impossible.

Luke Malone

When I first started talking to Letourneau a year and a half ago, she told me that in her 25 years in the field, she'd talked to lots of young guys who've abused children. But she'd never spoken to a pedophile who hasn't, which I found pretty incredible. I told her about Adam's group, and she asked if I could put them in touch. She's since spoken to several of them and has been talking to Adam regularly. And she's started to notice patterns, pattens that she can use to inform a treatment plan that she's getting off the ground.

Elizabeth Letourneau

You know, before talking to Adam and the other young men, I didn't know when it really crystallized for them that this wasn't going away. I didn't know what the experiences were. I had no idea about the deep depression and the self-loathing and the fear that really characterized all of their adolescence.

Luke Malone

While Letourneau is just starting to learn about what causes pedophilia and develop methods for treatment, Adam doesn't agree that he can be fixed. He doesn't hold out hope for the possibility of becoming something other than a pedophile. It took him years to figure it out in the first place.

Adam

The truth is, I know what my attractions are. I know they're there. By every definition of the medical term, I am one. Sometimes, you really just know these things.

Luke Malone

Adam says being a pedophile is something he'll spend the rest of his life battling. But he's committed to managing it. He's thought ahead to his future in a way that most 19-year-olds don't.

Adam

You know, I'd like a partner, obviously. The thought of having a kid is very scary. I'm not convinced I could ever allow myself to do that, as much as I may want it. I think, most people want kids at some point in their lives. And that's something that while I'm not saying I never will have, it's something I don't think I will have, I guess, for both of our safeties.

Luke Malone

Imagine being a teenager and being told never to act on your sexual feelings ever for the rest of your life. That's what we're asking of these people. At the moment, there is no clear plan for how to do that. But maybe there should be.

Ira Glass

Luke Malone. More of his reporting on this topic will appear next month on Medium.com.

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