richard pryor

In 1978, late comedian and actor Richard Pryor appeared as a guest on the Johnny Carson show. As many late-night talk shows do, he stuck around after his interview to occasionally mingle when the next guests was introduced. But instead of dropping in a few funny quips, Pryor spent nearly twenty minutes engaging with, and occasionally debating, Dorothy Fuldheim, a then-85-year-old pioneering female journalist.

The comedian moved to the other available chair as Carson introduced the next guest, but it didn't take long before Pryor jumped into the conversation. At first, things seem to be going well with Fuldheim joking with Pryor about being a sinner and smoking marijuana. The also touched on deeper subjects including racism, space exploration and whether God is real. Fuldheim, who was the first woman to host a television news program in the United States, often appeared to take more progressive leaning views than Pryor, which resulted in a lot of laughs from Johnny Carson and the audience.

However, it was when the conversation turned to the idea of poverty that things took a turn.

The typically hilarious, vulgar comedian had been exceptionally respectful to his fellow guest. Peppering all of his interactions with with "yes, ma'am" and "no, ma'am," his tone changed when Fuldheim, who had grown up in poverty, said she didn't believe it existed in America anymore.

Richard Pryor and Lou Gossett Jr. backstage at the Shrine Auditorium, Los AngelesUCLA Library/ Wikimedia Commons

After discussing whether poverty builds character, Carson asks the woman, "Do you think it's tougher now for young people just to survive?" Before the late-night talk show host could finish his sentence, Fuldheim emphatically said no.

"No, no. I think life is so much simpler now. Nobody starves in our country. Nobody has to go out on the corners to beg. You can go and get medical aid. Nobody lives in the streets," Fuldheim declared. It seems that's when Pryor could no longer hold his tongue. He softened his tone as he said, "Well, there are some people that live in the streets."

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This information seemed to shock the elderly woman as she questioned if the comedian was talking about America. She exclaimed that people didn't have to live in the streets in this country, to which Pryor replied, "Well, tell 'em." The conversation quickly turned into the comedian attempting to use humor to diffuse the situation and educate the woman about the struggles of people living in poverty. She was unrelenting in her belief that people weren't struggling with basic needs in 1978.

But Pryor was unrelenting in his defense of people struggling, saying, "Yes, ma'am. They sleep in the streets, and they die here," before he was interrupted by Fuldheim dismissing the claim.

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"Well, you don't die of starvation here. You can always get some food. We have it," Fuldheim says. Pryor continues using a calm voice, but it's clear he is becoming frustrated by the dismissal of information he's attempting to provide. But she bites back at him when he tries to share about the poverty level in Appalachia and mentions that he's focusing on white people instead of Black people. Pryor responds by comedically flinching away dramatically as if she were going to strike him. This caused the audience to burst out in laughter.

Pryor composes himself to further explain that he was not calling her prejudiced but trying to bring attention to the starving children in Appalachia. The interview is really a sign of the times, as Pryor unironically uses the R slur without malice, but as a descriptor for children who develop intellectual and developmental delays due to malnutrition.

Richard Pryor smiling at cameraAlan Light/Wikimedia Commons

Eventually, Carson steps in to try to rein in the conversation that continued to be marked with bursts of laughter at Pryor's one-liners. You can watch the entire interview below to see how, even under pressure, Pryor was a comedic genius. And while Fuldheim may have been out of touch when it came to poverty, her views on longevity, the role of women and how character is built, created the kind of meaningful conversation you almost never see on late night TV anymore.